Putin says. Everyone is sleeping

Without looking at Vladimir Putin's performances to foreigners at the Valdai Forum, we can say in advance that he will again try to appear before them with a dove of the world. And they will believe? On the live, this communication is commented by the analyst of the Karnegi Foundation Andrei Kolesnikov and the observer of the Ukrainian channel "Direct" Peter Zalmaev . The program "Faces to the event" Elena Rykovtseva is conducting.

Full video version of the program

Elena Rykovtseva: We are now starting to discuss the most sleepy event of all existing in nature, it occurs at these minutes - there is a Valdai forum. Vladimir Putin acts there, and everyone is sleeping, starting with the main speaker. He yawned before going on stage, then he went to speak, and they show us how others yawn. For example, Andrei Fursenko, an adviser to education and science, overslept the whole speech of Vladimir Vladimirovich, and instead of poke his elbow to his side and wake him up, he was shown to really sleeping. A person sits almost in the first row and sleeps. Such cruelty to him was manifested by the operator, which, perhaps, he will be fired soon.

Andrey Kolesnikov: You can consider this a denunciation of a sleeping person. But I think this is the only intrigue of the forum - Sleeping Fursenko. I think that Fursenko will not have anything for this, he already has a good position as these all the retired positions of the special -replayer, the adviser, she does not oblige to nothing, the person affects little. Miable to appear at all kinds of events. And what else to do there? Sergei Lavrov, too,, in my opinion, began to nap a little.

Elena Rykovtseva: The speech was some incredibly boring. It’s even interesting how you appreciate it. He stumbled all the time that he was unusual, he usually says well, then he stumbled in some words. At times, the semantic stresses did not make. The impression that they had just given him this piece of paper. He spoke for a long time. That's what?

Andrei Kolesnikov: In general, it seems to me that the format of the Valdai forum has changed very much. At first, these were informal meetings with a very small number of people, the Western people very much appreciated in the number 25, then the expanding number of guests. Now guests are counted hundreds. There was some officialization of the main action of the forum, because Valdai became a permanent site. This officialization, of course, did not benefit. Previously, everyone was waiting for some bright words of Putin. Maybe in the answers to questions he will come off, everyone is sitting and waiting for it to begin. But before the intrigue immediately began. Nikolai Zlobin, a semi -American, a semi -Russian expert, always asked acute questions: when you leave, will you leave, extend? Now this is not very relevant. Probably, the mass idea of Putin is that he will never go anywhere, it will always live forever. Last year, there was an intrigue, or rather, not intrigue, but simply a bright phrase about who he will fall into heaven as a result of the explosion, who would simply die, as Vladimir Vladimirovich put it. Maybe he now also polishes some kind of workpiece in his head or such an improvisational will say something. Of course, this is very cruel: first we are talking about the east of Putin, then the speech of Ilham Aliyev, how bad Armenia captured Nagorno -Karabakh. Some unequal state, then it was necessary to call the Armenian leader. The Philippines, Kazakhstan - is that our allies? Everything is done, as at many events of such a variety, so as not to talk about the main thing. The main thing is not the East, but the West, of course. The main thing is not the Philippines, but the Donbass and Crimea.

Elena Rykovtseva: Peter Zalmaev from Kiev sleeps with us today. You are probably also good on this speech that I made you listen, have a sleepy or have you fun?

Peter Zalmaev: I slept a little to her, because according to the good tradition, Vladimir Putin was late. As I understand it, the speech was supposed to begin at exactly 17.00, it is clear that he did not change his habit of making everyone wait from small to great. Speech, I agree with your colleague in the studio, I was absolutely not remembered by some bright expressions, bright words, sensations. This was the next reprise of the malicious speech of the 2007 Munich, with which a new round of the post -Soviet “Cold War” between Russia and the West is counted. All the speeches of Vladimir Putin after that are the 2007 Munich reprise.

Elena Rykovtseva: In the hall there was such an interesting four characters - this is Dmitry Kiselev, Kirill Vyshinsky, freshly from the paws of Bandera, Alexei Gromov and Sergey Lavrov. What should symbolize this unity of Kiselev, Vyshinsky, Lavrov and Gromov?

Andrei Kolesnikov: There used to be Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin - this four. I do not think that this is a random seedling, someone was thinking about where to plant whom. Obviously, Kirill Vyshinsky in this war with the West, that is, with Ukraine, is given great attention. Vyshinsky now is the flag that will be transferred from place to place to various official events. Here he is presented to the public. Many do not really recognize Gromov, since he is still a backstage cardinal, his face does not always flash, he is one of those who form the information space, the country's information agenda. And next to the Minister of Foreign Affairs. So, Vyshinsky becomes a small information weapon, it will work in this capacity, probably for some time.

Elena Rykovtseva: I have already heard that they give him a program that will be called something like “real Ukraine”, he will say, as really in Ukraine. This is not only in those talk shows or Russian news, which probably showed a false Ukraine, as it turns out now, since Kirill Vyshinsky will now come out with the present already.

Andrei Kolesnikov: Of course, all this becomes a little old -fashioned all the time to such an extent to concentrate in Ukraine. This is the style of the times of Poroshenko, to talk about Ukraine all the time, 24 hours a day. Now the situation is changing a little, they criticize Zelensky from the inside of the country, Zelensky is trying to balance different interests, falls into different stories with Trump and so on. A slightly different agenda. Europe terribly carefully monitors this, because they want to revive the Norman format, especially the French. We continue to engage in the image of some amazing Ukraine with some amazing accents. For what? It is already completely incomprehensible. In my opinion, there is some fatigue of the Russian public from Ukraine.

Elena Rykovtseva: Peter, you are deciphering this four, whose places were completely nearby nearby - Dmitry Kiselev, Kirill Vyshinsky, your former political prisoner, Alexei Gromov, the head of the ideological department of the unspoken, and Sergey Lavrov. What should we think when they are sitting nearby?

Peter Zalmaev: In fact, a lot can be understood for yourself from their facial expressions, from constant grin not only on their faces, but also on others. These are Putin’s streamlined hints that the West works against peace around the world, the West imposes on everyone its model of democracy and so on, the reaction of people to such statements. Putin never, correct me, if this was not so, never mentioned Ukraine, the name of the country, did not talk about the Minsk process, about the settlement in the Donbass, about the new president and so on. It was very remarkable. I think the presence of this four, in particular, Mr. Vyshinsky, was intended to compensate for this silence incomprehensible to me. It is clear that the conference was devoted to the problems of the East, however. Vladimir Putin may now proclaim, if not victory, then a certain breakthrough regarding the implementation of the “Steinmeier formula”, which not only gives him everything he wanted, I would say, promotes one step forward to implement his initial plan for using the Donbass as a Trojan horse. That is, to stick the Donbass as a Trojan horse to Ukraine in order to block its creeps towards the West. Plus, this "Steinmeier's Formula", its signing threatens Mr. Zelensky with potential problems. Because the opposition, which has now developed in Ukraine, including those 25% that supported President Poroshenko, they are much more passionate than those 75% of the national team of the protest voice that voted for Mr. Zelensky. They are already threatening Zelensky by direct and indirectly by another Maidan. Just yesterday in Kyiv, People's Pia, Mini-Maidan, whose participants protested against this “Steinmeier's Formula”, as a crime and treason to the state interests of Ukraine, passed in Kiev.

Elena Rykovtseva: Indeed, so far there was no Ukraine in Putin’s speech. Yesterday, he spoke a little about this at the energy forum, today there was no, I think he would be asked about it. I have a feeling when information appeared about this “Steinmeier formula”, about this agreement that includes it signed by Leonid Kuchma, it seemed to me the coverage of this on Russian federal channels be very provocative in nature. How was it presented? The concession, this is Putin, we forced them, we put them on their knees, Russia dictates, dictates Putin, where to go. They make and submit this signing in order to emphasize publicly to humiliate Ukraine that this is a concession that Zelensky personally makes Putin personally. They understand very well what reaction this will cause in Ukraine itself, they perfectly understand that exactly such a submission of this signing will cause the fact that in the end these agreements will not be implemented in Ukrainian legislation. At the same time, the absolutely boorish letter of Pushilin and this gop-brigade came to the Ukrainian authorities about what you owe us, in an ugly tone, exactly in such a thing that they say to them: yes, go there. On the contrary, I get the impression that everything is being done so that nothing of this happens. Show that we tried, and these through the Maidan, through indignation, did not go to our proposals, for our peaceful settlement. Moreover, Pushilin and the company do not need this, they perfectly understand what awaits them in Ukraine, fenced around the perimeter by Ukrainian border guards, they understand about their fate the future. They do not need anything in the composition of either federal or autonomous, it is unprofitable and generally dangerous to be in Ukraine. So I do not really agree that Moscow is beating for this formula, it does everything to show that it seems to be beating, but does everything so that it is not accepted.

Andrey Kolesnikov: I think that there is true. Because in general, the foreign policy of Russia is a continuous spoiler. There is no strategy, even tactics, there are some reactive things, someone did something, they reacted. But in this case, this habit of spoiling, interference in other people's affairs, for the work of trolls, for the intervention of Prigozhin people in all parts of the world now, here is the same. On the one hand, Putin Donbass is not very needed as a mobilization agent, worked out. He does not mobilize the population to support Vladimir Vladimirovich. This is already perceived by the population as a burden, as something incomprehensible, there was no triumphal procession in the east of Ukraine, back in 2014, Russian voters understood it, now this is simply not in focus. It’s like a suitcase without a handle, it is a pity to quit it, you can speculate on it, you can arrange a bunch of provocations of various ones in relation to the West, first of all you can tease the West with this whole story. This "Steinmeier's Formula" will be driven like a ball from different sides. Zelensky has already said that the "formula of Steinmeier", but only when our borders. Russia, of course, will say that this is not part of the Steinmeier's Formula, has already said Lavrov’s mouth, maybe someone else. Again, a stumbling block, it will not work again, again Macron will persuade Putin, Putin will tell him: but I, in fact, for the world around the world, see what they are doing. And of course, this is the habit of humiliating. Zelensky is not native to them. Yes, he is not Poroshenko, yes, they understand that he came to power not just so that he has the majority in parliament, while he is still quite popular, judging by the surveys. But to make him disgusting is part of the spoiler, if it can be called the strategy of the Russian Federation. Of course, you will not envy Zelensky, he works on several fronts, he is certainly very difficult for him. Moreover, the result is in question, I mean the peaceful settlement in the Donbass.

Elena Rykovtseva: I have the impression that they bother him. In Ukraine, there are such political forces that say that he is the Kremlin puppet is ridiculous, because it can be seen how he is hated, how he is harmful, interfered with, how he is humiliated, how they try to make a laughing stock from him here. It is necessary to watch the Russian TV very carefully, there is a lot of instructive for those who want to think that this is some kind of puppet and that he is in some conspiracy with the Kremlin. Even now, this formula has no conspiracy even close. Peter, I have the impression that this agreement is being broken off with such a presentation of Ham, they do not push him to him at all, but pushing him to leave the topic of settlement, especially Pushilin and Kremlin puppets do this absolutely obviously.

Peter Zalmaev: In fact, there is nothing new here. I think that we are not so strongly disagreed. Indeed, the fact of this presentation is a goal, including to make a greater split in Ukrainian society. You can argue about how loyal is Zelensky Prochrevsky, pro-Russian position, nevertheless, they sacredly believe that he is a revenge and so on, and not passionarily, and are really ready to go to some other Maidan. Putin understands this. He thus sends the signal to Zelensky: see what I have. Now in a paradoxically these 25% can be Putin's underlying allies from the opposite. Let us recall Putin’s meeting with Macron, he sends a signal, what we heard today in his theses, that Russia is a champion of the world, a constructive state, unlike not so constructive Western partners. Thus, he shows that we also have part of the West, which nevertheless saw the light, they woke up, saw who we were, on whose side the truth was. Together we will now put pressure and push Ukraine even on conditions that are unacceptable to them in advance. You talked about humiliation, really Mr. Zelensky has to be humiliated and not only on this side of the Atlantic, but also on another. We are talking now about the recordings of telephone conversations, his meeting with Mr. Trump in New York. I will tell you that in many ways he is guilty of himself, that he allows himself to be involved in these matters, react thus to Trump's insinuations, his requests for a favor, and so on. In a conversation, where he poured mud on European partners of Ukraine, who gave Ukraine more than 16 billion dollars of loans, credit, direct humanitarian aid. The neophytics and inexperience of the Ukrainian politician, which was very popular and was a great factor in his victory in the elections, now makes itself felt. We see the fruits of such inexperience. Now it is only worthwhile to imagine if such a conversation took place between Zelensky and Trump, what to expect from direct negotiations between Zelensky and Vladimir Putin. This is a duel of three -letter organizations - KVN and KGB. We can only imagine who will prevail in this duel.

Elena Rykovtseva: I think he has long moved away in these negotiations, maybe even unfortunately, from KVN. Something Kaveenovskoye would not hurt to let Trump into a conversation so that it seemed to be a joke or seeming irony. Unfortunately, there is no irony there. Indeed, he was comprehended by a huge blow, I consider the publication of these conversations a big psychological blow. Here I must say the only compliment addressed to Putin’s 20 years and the experience of Putin, who yesterday, when he was told that if your negotiations with Trump are published, said: listen, I worked at the KGB, you remember what kind of organization I got out of. I always say by phone so that these negotiations can be published. Of course, Zelensky did not have enough this experience, it could not have occurred to him that these conversations would be published, that someone would once find out about them.

Andrei Kolesnikov: I agree that the novelty of his face, his manner of behavior allowed him to win elections in a country where there are democratic procedures, democratic traditions. Now, of course, because of this is more complicated, but maybe it will turn into an advantage somewhere further. Because he did what he could not do before - he moved some processes from a dead point. The exchange of prisoners took place. O'Kay, small things, but a policy consists of these small affairs, and they concern living people. In this policy, living people are more important than some kind of political poses: in no case do we talk to each other, in no case talk with terrorists. From this series of prejudices. He does not have these prejudices, so he is able to work at this level. Often Macron is compared with him, he also came in the wake of the search for third force in France, he also took the parliament, like Zelensky. Макрон пытается играть новую роль в качестве переговорщика с Путиным, как человека, который может Путина вынудить совершать какие-то дружественные шаги. Путин ведет себя как вел всегда, он сидит на холме, ждет каких-то предложений от западных партнеров, делает вид, что он сам предлагает что-то. За последнее время он дважды сделал этот вид, сегодня третий раз. Сначала он предложил какое-то партнерство стран Персидского залива, сегодня он повторил эту идею: мы же летом вышли с этим предложением, пожалуйста, пусть США туда входят. Заведомо зная, что никто эту формулу не примет, чтобы потом сказать: ну мы же предлагали такую мирную инициативу, новую структуру. И это предложение, чтобы не размещать ракеты средней дальности, на что американцы говорят: вы уже разместили, теперь говорите нам, что размещать не надо. Where is the logic? Сегодня было опубликовано интервью уезжающего посла США, он был в полном недоумении: как мы можем это всерьез рассматривать? Это такие шуточки в стиле чекистов, но это не политика, так политику не делают.

Елена Рыковцева: Я предлагаю хоть что-то из этой речи, на которой все заснули, послушать один занятный фрагмент.

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Выступление Владимира Путина на Валдайском форуме

Елена Рыковцева: Что вы скажете по поводу этого "благодаря", "от опасной черты"?

Андрей Колесников: Это тот стиль, который исповедуется нынешней властью, продавать угрозу. Эти угрозы покупаются, за счет этого покупается и популярность: я вас спас, ребята, вы этого не знали и не чувствовали, но я знал, что вы стояли над пропастью, я вас спас. Это воспринимается абсолютно всерьез. Да, была чеченская война вторая, безусловно, серьезное дело. О некоторых ее последствиях негативных сейчас не любят вспоминать официальная пропаганда и сам Путин. В Беслан он не поехал в годовщину, он поехал на Халхин-Гол праздновать победу, малоизвестную российскому народу, над японскими захватчиками в Монголии. Этого он избегает, а произнести эти слова – это важно, "международный терроризм", "распад России". Это же имеется в виду не только Чечня, имеется в виду Россия в принципе как таковая, потому что именно тогда его первый шаг – это введение федеральных округов и уполномоченных представителей президента в них. Сейчас эти должности абсолютно синекуристые никому не нужные, но тогда это был очень важный шаг. Потом были теракты, потом была отмена губернаторских выборов. Путин всерьез считает своим достижением то, что он удержал Россию как таковую от распада на разные государства. Хотя, мне кажется, что это сильно преувеличенная угроза, никто бы никуда. Как мы себе представляем – Дальневосточная республика, независимая Горноалтайская чего-то? И опять эти слова – суверенитет, суверенитет и суверенитет и безопасность. Точно так же, как он посвятил Сирии в своей речи большой кусок: мы спасли страну от проникновения международных террористов, вооруженных головорезов. Почему они должны были из Сирии приехать, они занимаются своими делами там. Наоборот в каком-то смысле мы спровоцировали своим участием в сирийском конфликте, стали стороной конфликта, для головорезов, если они действительно хотят мстить, Россия становится в некотором смысле мишенью. Еще что он в этой речи сказал интересное – он похвалил Трампа. Замечательный парень, наконец без всяких оскорблений в адрес Ким Чен Ына, без всяких предварительных условий сел за стол переговоров, эти переговоры были успешными. Трамп у него положительный герой. Америка плохая, американская демократия плохая, американской культуры не существует, как он сказал в беседе с английскими коллегами-журналистами, а вот Трамп хороший.

Елена Рыковцева: Но ведь Трамп тоже говорит, что Володя хороший, и для Трампа это положительный герой.

Питер Залмаев: На самом деле на подиуме присутствовали несколько положительных для Трампа героев, кроме Владимира Путина, любовью к которому Трамп уже известен всем, которой он не изменяет, невзирая ни на Мюллера, ни на Конгресс. Там же еще был президент Филиппин, который развязал очень кровавую вне юридического поля войну с наркодилерами, в результате которой погибло много тысяч людей. Трампу нравятся такие решительные действия. Он даже часто высказывал свои розовые мечты о том, если бы в Америке тоже была такая президентская власть безраздельная, по сути монархическая, как бы было это хорошо. Трампу нравятся такие лидеры. Если бы на то была его воля, к этому бы в Вашингтоне все и шло. Единственная надежда на наши суды, на наш Конгресс, демократов в Конгрессе, потому что при Трампе идет поползновение в сторону банановой республике. Я бы еще прокомментировал, в чем состоял месседж Путина, когда он брал обзор своего 20-летнего президентства, заявлял о стабильности в регионе, тут важно читать между строк. Потому что корреляция того, что он сказал – это как раз тот раздрай, который несут нашему региону западные государства, администрации американских президентов, Джордж Сорос, все это бросается в одну кучу, все те, которые стоят за "цветными революциями" в нашем регионе. Понятно, что рассказывая о стабильности и дружбе народов в дружной российской семье, он подспудно намекал: смотрите, иначе у нас майдановский сценарий, как вы это видите в Украине.

Елена Рыковцева: Я бы организаторам форума предложила спички раздавать всем участникам и вставлять их в глаза. То, что только сейчас показывали эти лица – это абсолютно сонное царство.

Андрей Колесников: Я думаю, душновато просто, в зале надышано, все сидят в пиджаках с галстуками. Оператор упорно показывает спящих людей. При советской власти такого оператора, режиссера сняли бы с должности.

Елена Рыковцева: Он так себя веселит, иначе он тоже заснет, если перестанет показывать спящих людей.

Андрей Колесников: Душно и скучно. Путин молчит. Я думаю, что задача Путина на самом деле может быть не очень высказываться.

Елена Рыковцева: Мы, предполагая, что Владимир Путин в очередной раз будет выставлять себя на этом форуме голубем мира, он всегда на Валдайском форуме говорит, что только Россия думает о мире, все остальные страны нам в этом смысле завидуют, а Америка так вообще занимается исключительно войнами, задавали сегодня вопрос прохожим: не следовало бы России ради мира сделать два простых конкретных шага, а это отдать Крым законным хозяевам и уйти с Донбасса?

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Cтремится ли Путин к миру в Донбассе?

ПРОДОЛЖЕНИЕ СМОТРИТЕ НА ВИДЕО И СЛУШАЙТЕ В ЗВУКЕ