One against the FSB

Leonid Velekhov : Hello, on the air of freedom is a radio that is not only audible, but also visible. In the studio Leonid Velekhov, and this is the new issue of the program "Cult of Personality", which you also watch on the TV channel "Present time". Our program, as I always clarify, is not about tyrants, it is about real personalities, their fate, actions, their views on life.

Journalist Svetlana Prokopyeva today is visiting me.

( Video of Svetlana Prokopyeva. Hands :

Journalist Svetlana Prokopyeva from Pskov became famous throughout Russia and even beyond its borders thanks to the FSB. For her serious, smart note, in which she wrote that repressions produce extremists and terrorists, she was charged with “justification of terrorism” - a serious criminal offense, for which he threatens from five to seven years of prison.

The special services - or who came up with such an accusation against Svetlana -, among other things, demonstrated that they did not know Russian history even within the school course. This whole story is multiple proof of the correctness of Svetlana. Vera Zasulich, who shot at the St. Petersburg mayor of the “lawless” Trepova, Stepnyak-Kravchinsky, the chopped chief of the gendarmes and the head of the third branch of Mezentsev, the Tsareubians Perovskaya, Zhelyabov, Mikhailov, Kibalchich and Rysakov; Boris Savinkov and his comrades, who organized the murders of the Minister of the Interior, Pleve and the Moscow General General, Grand Duke Sergey Alexandrovich ... All this is the history of Russia, in which the authorities acted according to the Assumption principle formulated by the writer Gleb and not to let it go. And she was attended until 1917 ...

But even in those deaf, according to Blok, the years of Russia, the police officers could not have occurred to the police that one could also pursue for some kind of “justification of terrorism”. This is a clear know-how of modern police authorities, which, apparently, as they say, really choppers. After all, Svetlana wrote pure truth.

Over the year, which has passed since the publication, Svetlana survived a lot. You can’t wish anyone to deal with our police, especially secret. But our heroine discovered the qualities of a real warrior for the truth. Without having any administrative resource, she managed to raise the professional community, international public organizations for her defense. I did not say "in my defense": not only mine. She protects our freedom, the right of people to expression of their own opinion. This fragile woman with the face of the Russian Madonna is convincingly repeated that she was right, claiming that repression, unwillingness to listen to the voice of society, an attempt to plug his mouth, produce terrorists and lead the country to disaster).

Studio

Leonid Velekhov : Sveta, today, in addition to the fact that the 102nd anniversary of the October Revolution, as far as I know, is exactly a year from the day when your ill-fated note was published. But, unfortunate or not? Because after all, thanks to her you became first famous, then famous. A lot of people acted in your defense. In fact, such a star hour turned out, and the star hours in our profession, especially in recent years, have few people. So, nevertheless, there was no starship hour or would it be better, respectively, there would be no unpleasant consequences that she brought?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : I would divide this question into two parts. Just on my birthday - I turned 40 this year - I reasoned, a month ago, about how to live, when your main achievement by the age of 40 is a criminal case? ( Laughter in the studio ). Indeed, nothing more of such stunning with me in 40 years happened: I didn’t fly into space, I didn’t talk to the aliens, I didn’t make any brilliant invention to cure, for example, cancer. But to become famous, of course, would be great with some kind of such good act. But - no! - A criminal case. And I really thought a lot about it, that it was me? Yes, yes, I became somehow known, some wonderful people are associated with me, I added a bunch of friends on Facebook, and these are beautiful people. Was it worth it or not? And, in fact, I understand that there was no, of course, it was not worth it, because my whole life was already in principle by the time I really liked it. I had a wonderful job. We knew that we are launching the North. Realities website, where I am working as an editor now, I was already preparing for this. This proposal has already been made to me, that is, it is not thanks to my criminal case, thank God, but due to the fact that I worked normally as a journalist. I have developed a good database of contacts with people. I am pretty good to establish these contacts. That is, I did not need this criminal case. I don’t have my laptop now, I have no equipment that I had.

Leonid Velekhov : A bunch of complications in life ...

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Yes, a lot of complications! My accounts are blocked. The minuses, in fact, are more. Therefore, of course, I would like that there was no criminal case. But, on the other hand, to say that it was better if this note had not been written, I cannot. Because those words that I wrote then, the thoughts that I then expressed, I consider important. I believe that this is an important topic that had to be discussed.

Leonid Velekhov : I will also "trust" my question. Repeat all over again, would you write this note in the same form or would you still edit yourself?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Do you know how best it would be? If there were no explosion, but there would be another media-car. I could write the same words for any other reason. And even when the administrative process in the Echo of Moscow was going on, they sued Roskomnadzor, trying to challenge the warning ... and on October 30 they interrogated the expert Belousov, who, by order of the court, made a very bad examination. He says that, now, she responds to the state, a negative attitude to everything that it does, and he presents this as an excuse for terrorism. I ask him the question: "And if the same words, I used the same expressions for another reason - about the acceleration of the rally, for example: would this also be an excuse for terrorism?" He begins to crumble. The justification of terrorism was found only because the reason for the note is an explosion in Arkhangelsk. But, excuse me, I wrote about not an explosion in Arkhangelsk, I wrote about a law enforcement system that presses people who presses the dissatisfied, clamping the legal channels of protest energy and receives a “replirt”, as named in my column. It would be nice to write this on a different reason, then they would not find what to complain about. Probably, it made sense to make some kind of disclaimer for Roskomnadzor, he has a reader at the level of a three-year-old child: he needs to write everything very clearly, which is not, I do not justify terrorism. Only so, and everything else ... there is nothing to change.

Leonid Velekhov : But the reason, of course, turned out to be very sharp.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Yes.

Leonid Velekhov : rallies and their dispersal - this has long become the everyday life of our lives. And here is completely different, unusual. From the very beginning, I felt that this story caused some very personal reaction.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Yes, no, not that she would cause a personal reaction because I was not familiar with Mikhail Zlobitsky, I never consisted in any anarchist groups, companies, and so on. I do not really understand the ideology of anarchism. With the FSB, too, I never had any business, there was no particular resentment at the FSB to directly rejoice that they were exploded there. Why rejoice at this?!

Leonid Velekhov : Of course, no.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : This story really scared me. Because it is a rather terrible thing when protest energy begins to be realized in explosions. The previous time it ended badly.

Leonid Velekhov : That's the point! And, on the other hand, to challenge the idea that the state with its repression, its prohibitions, its plug of mouth to any other opinion, except for the official, breeds violence, provokes it, in Russia simply ridiculous. Because Russian history is filled with such precedents. Our editorial office is located on Malaya Dmitrovka Street, it used to be Chekhova Street, and crossing the garden ring, the street called Kalyaevskaya, now the name Dolgorukovskaya was returned to it. Kalyaev is a revolutionary bomb, a murderer of the Moscow Governor General. And how many of them are in our history - Zasulich, and Perovskaya with the rest of the tsareubians, and so on, up to Savinkov ... The history of Russia is simply full of confirmations of the very thought that you were accused and subjected to criminal prosecution.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Yes.

Leonid Velekhov : Have you expected such a reaction of power?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Yes, of course, I did not expect, I am an experienced journalist, for a long time in the profession, I know laws, I know the media law, I know which words cannot be used. I am always trying to read my texts on the subject of possible claims ...

Leonid Velekhov : That is, there was no gust that blinded you creative inspiration ( laughter in the studio ), everything was normally and calmly written.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : No, there was, of course, a creative impulse.

It seems to me that this is a successful text. I do not love all my texts, but I liked this one. I was offended that he was read little then. ( Laughter in the studio ).

Leonid Velekhov : See, but as a result, thanks to our state, thanks to the FSB, it was read by many people than you could dream ...

Svetlana Prokopyeva : They know how to do this, this resonance.

Leonid Velekhov : Hyparit.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : ( Laughter in the studio ). Hip.

Leonid Velekhov : Or help another hip. But such a reaction to the reaction of the authorities, such a resonance to what happened to you, did you expect?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : I hoped for it.

Leonid Velekhov : Yes?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Yes, I wanted this, of course. But in February, when the case was opened, the reaction was less than all the same, when the case came close to the charges. The charge was brought to me only on September 20. I sat in the country all summer and planted tomatoes, completely not worried about anything, because I was not called for interrogations, I was not called to any investigative actions. The investigator changed there, he was in no hurry to get to know me, he shoved me into the list of Rosfinmonitoring, which caused me just terrible anger.

Leonid Velekhov : But this is really a very difficult thing.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : I am still infuriated by the fact that I am on the list of Rosfinmonitoring, and I do not have more my cards and access to the account. I lived a normal ordinary life, and everything seemed to subside. But when the charge was charged, it became clear that nothing would subside, then we decided to make this action, I invited all my colleagues to publish my text. It is amazing that they did it!

Leonid Velekhov : Is there really something more than 600 people of this text?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Honestly, I did not count, but Lev Markovich Schlosberg considered.

Leonid Velekhov : I read somewhere that more than 600! I didn’t even think that we had so many media.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Yes, Lev Markovich believed.

Leonid Velekhov : Lev Markovich inspired you for this business?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : I consulted with him. I came up with this idea myself, I can say with pride, but I consulted with it

Leonid Velekhov : So, first of all, of course, with this unprecedented resonance, I think you owe yourself when you decided to hit the bell as much as possible.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : In fact, I was pushed by Elizabeth Time, my colleague. So, this is Lisa thank you.

Leonid Velekhov : Great! But, probably, there were those who said: "You better sit quieter, do not lean out. Maybe it will somehow go away." No?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : But no! There are simply no such people around me, with Soviet consciousness. My parents are not very, as they say, they were upset when the Soviet Union ended, and the friends of the parents were also not very upset by this. And this nostalgia for the Soviet Union and, accordingly, the Soviet consciousness around me is quite small. And my lawyers were immediately configured for maximum publicity.

Leonid Velekhov : Ah, right?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Yes! My lawyer is Tatyana Martynova, she was with me from the very first day, we were friends even before this criminal case, we were familiar with her at Navalny's headquarters. And she was immediately focused on maximum publicity. And thanks to her, due to the fact that I was able to call her when the search began, and only I could call the lawyer, she immediately informed my colleagues, informed everyone, and soon the children with cameras, ( laughter in the studio ), were waiting for the investigative committee.

Leonid Velekhov : Is there any explanation-why did they cling to you? Maybe they have been looking for a reason for a long time? You are a famous journalist in Pskov. Maybe, in general, someone wrote a denunciation from the street? Maybe the Pskov FSB is especially watching somehow, after all, it acts on the border with NATO ... What could there be motivations?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : I actually, as it were - I do not know. But from what I read out of my criminal case, I saw how this whole chain formed. They had a monitoring of Roskomnadzor, who apparently monitored the publications after the events in Arkhangelsk. This is an automated system: she simply, in some words, is looking for something there. And, apparently, what they find, they then look at and decide - which case to give, and which one is not. Well, I got into this monitoring. I do not think that it was for me that they dug. It all started with a service note by some ordinary employee of Roskomnadzor, who simply without analysis, without mentioning any specific words and quotes, writes that "signs of justification of terrorism were discovered." And then they are allegedly hiding behind a study that a specialist of the radio -frequency center, accountable to Roskomnadzor, makes. There are just some guys, yesterday from the institute, who, too, without any particular study, “justify” that there are signs of justification of terrorism. And all this began.

Leonid Velekhov : When I hear such stories, I think about what is happening in the heads and hearts of these people who pronounce sentences - several years of prison for throwing an empty bottle - or who write with an unfriendly hand - "discovered signs of justification of terrorism"? What is it? They are people, they have children, wives ...

Svetlana Prokopyeva : They are ordinary people, they are not oligarchs, they are not Putin's friends, not the beneficiaries of this regime! They have small positions in these structures, small salaries. They simply do not think that specifically the fate of a person depends on them. The same investigator ... I tell him: "You understand that you will send me to prison, and I can go out of there without teeth, without health, without everything. With me, anything can happen, thanks to you!" He says: "No!"

Leonid Velekhov : He does not understand.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : “The court will decide. I have to do with it,” he says. “I am doing my work.”

Leonid Velekhov : Yes, just, as the theater says, a long pause.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : People do not take responsibility. They do not realize the consequences of what they solve.

Leonid Velekhov : Was it really scary?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : It was unpleasant. And it was very sorry for everything that would happen to my house, with my property, and so on. I immediately realized that I was left without a laptop, and for me a laptop is all! I am a journalist: there is my archive, there are all my photos, there is my whole virtual person. This was very unpleasant and very sorry, because it is ... you understand, when suddenly your ordinary life becomes a corpus delicti. They begin your every act, words, phrases to interpret as evidence of a crime. They find what package during the search, and something is written in English in English. "And this, what is Svetlana Vladimirovna, can you comment?"

Leonid Velekhov : That is, no presumption of innocence, in fact, exists in Russian reality?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Well, what kind of presumption of innocence can be discussed when they, by order of the investigator, about attracting as a suspect, take property, money from a person?! Once! - And the accounts are blocked. I am amazed in rights. I can’t use the score, I can’t take a loan, I can't.

Leonid Velekhov : Now, Sveta, let's get back to your near, due to your youth, the past.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Youth is already relative. ( Laughter in the studio ).

Leonid Velekhov : Stop, stop! Thanks to what you formed in a journalist, with your views, with your position? How did everything work? What place is the family here?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : A good question! The family, of course, takes some place here, although my parents have simple workers, without higher education. They are very smart, very good, wonderful people, but they did not build any career in due time. Probably, Papino is influence, because dad spoke to me about history, he told some things. They watched the TV together, read books in large numbers, discussed something, political jokes told. They were not any dissidents, of course, but made fun of all this matter.

Leonid Velekhov : Kitchen skeptics.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Yes. In principle, they very warmly and positively accepted the changes that occurred in the 90s. I can say for sure what infuriated my mother in Soviet times, for example: she was infuriated by the fact that if you have no acquaintance with the store director, then you are standing in line for the sofa, behind the carpet, behind this ...

Leonid Velekhov : Life passed in lines.

Svetlana Prokopyeva : Yes. Everything had to be taken out from somewhere. It just enraged my parents terribly, because they were simple people without any blat. And, of course, when it became possible to earn and buy, they took it well, with enthusiasm. Yes, probably this also influenced.

Leonid Velekhov : Surely. And where did journalism come from?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : I came to journalism on an ad. ( Laughter in the studio ). A classic example: they recruited by reporting journalists to the Pskov Province. It so coincided that I finished studying at the Faculty of History and was not at all interested

Politics. In early adolescence, I had a hobby Nevzorov, "600 seconds" I watched with great enthusiasm, but then just how it cut off all. I finished the Eastfaces of our pedagogical and thought - what to do next, where to go? I won’t go to school for anything, I thought. And suddenly I saw an ad on the board at our faculty: "A new composition of the journalistic team is gaining. If you want to try yourself, write two essays and bring it." I told my friends about this announcement, my friends immediately said - try it!

Leonid Velekhov : And did she write, in general, before that?

Svetlana Prokopyeva : I always liked writing. I wrote school works well, tried to write some storytellers. And one friend of mine says: "Oh, I know who gave this announcement - this is Schlosberg. I know him. Come on, write, everything will be cool there." Well, well, I wrote two essays, brought. Lev Markovich Shlosberg liked them, we met him. Of course, I knew that there was such a person in Pskov. And he took me to the bet at once.

Video

Lev Schlosberg : We met Svetlana Prokopyeva in the summer of 2002 in Pskov. I was the editor of the newspaper Pskov Province. And I understood that new journalists are needed for a successful regional newspaper that would cause public interest. And the final exams at the Pskov Pedagogical Institute, which I myself graduated, were ended, the Faculty of History. And on the boards of announcements of all faculties of the Pskov Pedagogical Institute, we hung a piece of paper of A4 paper, where the words were written: "Do you want to learn free journalism? Call!" And then there was a simple number of a city phone from six digits of the editorial office of the newspaper "Pskov province". The girl called, said that her name is Svetlana Prokopyeva, and she became interested in this proposal. Our exam consisted of two independent texts, that is, each applicant for journalistic work of the Pskov province was supposed to bring two different texts and skills in the subjects and genres of the text. Svetlana brought two texts: one of them was definitely about the tourism of the Pskov region related to the cultural heritage, I, unfortunately, now I don’t remember the topic of the second text. I liked both texts in language and said: "Svetlana, you may make a journalist. Come." She came. She worked in the Pskov province for four years, until 2006. Then she went to live and work in Saratov, and then she returned to Pskov, worked in other media and organizations. And then we met with her in a situation that was difficult to predict in advance - it was 2013. By that time, I had been a deputy of the Pskov Regional Assembly for two years and understood that practical political work simultaneously with the leadership of an independent media is generating a conflict of interests - the interests of a politician, deputy and editor. I really wanted to find a person who would lead the Pskov Province and allow me to free myself from those restrictions that, of course, were superimposed on me when working in the newspaper. And at that moment Svetlana was kicked out of the newspaper where she worked at that moment, it was a state newspaper. Her independent position, independent actions did not like the officials of the administration of the Pskov region, who were the founders of this newspaper. And Svetlana became suddenly free. And I wrote to her: "Svetlana, let's get back to the conversation about the" Pskov province "." She said: "Yes, it's interesting." And we agreed with her about the work by the editor-in-chief of the "Pskov province" for one year, that is, it was not some kind of strategic agreement on long cooperation. It was an agreement - to try, because it is difficult to be an editor of an independent newspaper. And it so happened, it so happened that it was precisely during the Light Editorial of the Pskov province that the events-the Russian-Ukrainian war. And those articles that were published in the Pskov province in August and September 2014, when Svetlana was an editor, I remained one of the observers, journalists, it would probably be better to say, the publicists of this newspaper - these articles for several weeks made the Pskov Province one of the main newspapers of the world in those days. And having worked for a year, Svetlana left: she did not continue the contract, moved to another media. But we stayed with her in very close professional relations, including these professional relations during the publication of the newspaper Pskov "Yabloko" "Citizen", where I am an editor. This is a political newspaper, but we make it as media. In the preparation of a dozen issues of this newspaper, Svetlana was an outlet. And she allowed to make this newspaper, helped, made this newspaper as a living newspaper.

In Svetlana, I was always attracted to several things. Firstly, its very high performance: it can work a lot and efficiently. Secondly, her responsibility. If we agreed that for such a day, for such an hour, materials are needed, they will be ready for such a day and for such an hour. She is a very disciplined journalist. Her approach to work is professional. She knows how to work with a fact; She knows how to work with comments; She knows how to work with speakers; She sees the text like a living fabric. This is, in fact, far from a few journalists. There are people who write well, but cannot be the organizers of the media. And Svetlana, despite the fact that now she is not an editor and, probably, this is a very difficult job and psychologically complex, but she could work as an editor of a large media if she wanted to understand the context of both information and text.

It is now quite obvious that she turned out to be a participant in the special operation of the authorities, the special operation of the special services, which was completely consciously started after the explosion on October 31, 2018 in the reception of the Arkhangelsk FSB, when a 17-year-old man, in protest, committed, in my opinion, not a terrorist act, but political suicide in the reception of the special services of his region. I regard this as an act of a person who was desperate to express himself and found such an absolutely fatal, in every sense a deadly, inadequate way of self -expression. Svetlana in her column wrote that for the appearance, for growing, in a sense for the education of such young men, the state is responsible, because it limits the institutions of freedom in our country and contributes to the radicalization of people. In general, in fact, a huge number of scientific works have been published on this subject, that the radicalization of society, including young people, even primarily youth, occurs in a situation where institutions of natural self -realization, political self -realization of people are either distorted and limited altogether. And this pushes people into the agenda that is destructive and is not creative. Дороже всех за 31 октября заплатил сам погибший молодой человек - его жизнь закончена, которая могла бы продолжаться. Поставив вопрос об ответственности государства, Светлана, как выяснилось по всем последующим событиям, поставила вопрос об ответственности силовой, репрессивной машины, полицейской машины, вопрос именно о политической ответственности, вопрос о человеческой ответственности. Этот вопрос оказался для российско власти и силовой структуры нетерпимым вопросом.

При этом на тему архангельского взрыва, архангельской трагедии вышли тысячи публикаций в стране, в том числе в Москве и в Петербурге. Везде был проведен мониторинг всех публикаций не только в СМИ, но и в соцсетях. Этим мониторингом занималась ФСБ, но в столицах никого не тронули – то ли не захотели поднимать здесь общественное недовольство, то ли, возможно, считали, что здесь, в столицах, много других проблем, а спецслужбы здесь достаточно защищены. А вот в регионах пошел просто вал уголовных дел по оправданию терроризма и против журналистов, и против совершенно отдельных людей, не имеющих по большому счету никакого отношения ни к журналистике, ни к политике, но эти люди высказались каким-то образом о событиях в Архангельске.

Ведь что говорят заказные эксперты со стороны следствия? Они говорят две вещи: первое – Прокопьева не осудила терроризм. Это же в чистом виде запах 30-х годов – недостаточно заклеймила или, вообще, не заклеймила, то есть ей вменяют отсутствие осуждения, по сути дела, не пропаганду терроризма, ей вменяют отсутствие осуждения. Это заведомо насильственное действие со стороны следствия. И второе – они пытаются так прочитать и истолковать ее текст, что якобы она сказала, что у этого парня не было других возможностей для политической самореализации, кроме как через совершение этого самоподрыва. This is a lie! It's just a lie! Она такого не писала! Но, очевидно, матрица следствия, матрица спецслужб заранее была ориентирована на то, чтобы на сочетании этих двух позиций, то есть домысливание, я бы даже сказал, извращенное истолкование текста Прокопьевой, которая писала совершенно не об этом, и обвинение ее в отсутствии осуждения террористического акта, как это считает государство, построить государственное обвинение. Это, на самом деле, новое слово в технологии политического обвинения. К нему нужно относиться очень серьезно, потому что оно может коснуться тысяч людей, которые занимаются журналистикой в нашей стране.

Леонид Велехов : Вы как-то непосредственно связаны с "Яблоком"?

Светлана Прокопьева : Нет, только дружбой с Львом Марковичем.

Леонид Велехов : А, с другой стороны, я знаю, что вы со штабом Навального сотрудничали?

Светлана Прокопьева : Да.

Леонид Велехов : Мы знаем особенности взаимоотношений... Как Лев Маркович к этому относится: к тому, что вы еще и навальнистка немного?

Светлана Прокопьева : ( Смех в студии ). Я поддерживаю Алексея Анатольевича, да. Когда Навальный вел свою президентскую кампанию, я пошла в его штаб волонтерить. И, конечно, были большие споры между мной и Львом Марковичем Шлосбергом. Даже был обмен текстами, обмен колонками.

Леонид Велехов : Ах, так?!

Светлана Прокопьева : Да. Он писал, что надо участвовать в выборах, у России нет другого пути измениться, кроме как через выборы. А я писала о том, что какие же это выборы – это не выборы, Путин власть захватил совершенно незаконно, а мы ведемся на эту "разводку", он пятый срок собирается сидеть на своем посту, а в Конституции написано только два срока, нет, надо забастовку избирателей, - писала я. ( Laughter in the studio ). Но это нормально: мы спорим, мы обсуждаем политику со всех точек зрения. Я считаю, что это совершенно нормально. На самом деле, Лев, конечно, очень уважает Алексея Анатольевича, Алексей Анатольевич уважает Льва Марковича. Они как политики друг друга, я думаю, ценят и могли бы быть хорошими конкурентами на выборах, если бы у нас были нормальные выборы.

Леонид Велехов : О вашем родном Пскове. На недавних выборах три района, кажется, возглавили "яблочники".

Светлана Прокопьева : Да, три района.

Леонид Велехов : В Пскове Шлосберг, который тоже побеждал на выборах. Вообще, с Пскова, насколько я помню, началась такая выборная вольница, потому что первые губернаторские выборы выиграл человек из ЛДПР.

Светлана Прокопьева : Да.

Леонид Велехов : К ЛДПР как не относись, но все-таки люди голосовали за того человека, наверняка, как за оппозицию, как за антитезу власти. Значит, что-то в этом смысле есть в ваших краях особенное или?..

Светлана Прокопьева : Да, нет, на самом деле, ничего особенного такого нет. Легенда про псковское вече – это историческая память, навеянная учебниками истории. Потому что население практически целиком в городе поменялось после войны. Люди понаехали по распределению из самых разных регионов, и город сложился, как сложился, такой же советский город, как и все остальные советские города. И особой оппозиционности тоже, на самом деле, нет. "Единая Россия" забирает свое большинство практически везде, где ей надо. А победы "Яблока" – это результат титанической работы. Когда партия начинает работать, реально работать с населением, с избирателями, встречи какие-то организовывать, газеты выпускать, тогда и результат приходит. Тем более что почва для недовольства у людей есть – Псковская область очень нищая. Она одна из первых пошла на модернизацию, оптимизацию здравоохранения, например, когда стали закрываться районные больницы, а вместо них открываться межрайонные больницы. По сути это означает, что было три больницы, а стала одна. Дорог нет, "скорая" одна на район… Очередной рост смертности. Псковская область – столица российской депопуляции.

Leonid Velekhov : Even so?

Светлана Прокопьева : С 60-х годов.

Леонид Велехов : Не знал.

Светлана Прокопьева : Пик населения в Псковской губернии был достигнут, по-моему, в конце XIX века. С тех пор население только снижается. Сейчас осталось 600 тысяч, а когда-то было полтора миллиона в области. Люди уезжают, в том числе, потому что негде лечиться, негде учить детей, школы закрыты везде. Дети полтора часа доезжают до школы на тряских пазиках.

Леонид Велехов : Средние века.

Светлана Прокопьева : Да, средние века. И, конечно, люди голосуют теперь за оппозицию, просто потому что им нечего терять. Особенно после того, как Турчак еще и оптимизировал волости – было три волости, а стало одна. Представьте себе, большой район, территории-то огромные, деревень много, деревни все мелкие. И власть не в пешей доступности, как закон о местном самоуправлении пишет, а в 70 километрах!

Леонид Велехов : Именно в этот период, в этот год, о котором мы говорим, вышла книжка "Псковской губернии" – "Россия и Украина", куда вошли и расследования Алексея Семенова о судьбе псковских десантников, погибших на Донбассе. Презентация этой книжки была в Москве в Сахаровском центре, кажется, в феврале этого года.

Светлана Прокопьева : Это было ровно накануне обыска. Я 6 февраля утром вернулась в Псков, и в 12 часов дня ко мне пришли.

Леонид Велехов : А вы не связываете эти два события?

Светлана Прокопьева : Кто-то излагал такую версию. Конечно, это отчасти конспирология, потому что проверка тогда уже шла. На самом деле, есть версия, что именно мое участие в этой презентации подтолкнуло все-таки решение о возбуждении уголовного дела, а не о закрытии проверки за отсутствием состава преступления.

Леонид Велехов : Мы беседуем о вещи, хорошо нам с вами известной, но давайте напомним. История с захоронением псковских десантников имела очень большой резонанс, но сейчас все как-то проходит и забывается…

Светлана Прокопьева : Август 14-го года. Никто еще толком не был уверен в том, что российские войска участвуют в военной операции на Донбассе. Государство все отрицало категорически, каких-то внятных видеокадров не было, сами военные тоже молчали. И вдруг в какой-то момент в "ВКонтакте" появляется сообщение от имени Оксаны Кичаткиной, которая сообщает о том, что завтра похороны ее мужа, прощание там-то. А Оксана была супругой военнослужащего Псковской дивизии. Все стали ей звонить, писать. Тут же сориентировались контрсилы, кто-то за Оксану отвечал по телефону и говорил: "Нет, вот мой муж. Сейчас я дам ему трубку, он здесь". Все это могло бы так и заглохнуть, на этом все могло и кончиться, но, слава богу, у нас есть Алексей Семенов, который просто пошел туда, где было объявлено прощание. Он туда пошел, и туда пошел Лев Маркович. Фотографии этих могил стали первым настоящим доказательством того, что люди гибнут, военные гибнут и, скорее всего, гибнут на востоке Украины. С этого и начали раскручивать эту всю историю.

Леонид Велехов : Какие-то неприятности были у газеты, у Семенова, у вас? У Льва Марковича были…

Светлана Прокопьева : У Льва Марковича были нормальные такие неприятности – ему дали по голове.

Леонид Велехов : Да, я помню.

Светлана Прокопьева : Он провел в больнице какое-то время. Алексей замечал за собой слежку, старался быть аккуратнее, конечно. Я занимала в то время как раз пост главреда этой прекрасной газеты. Я ничего такого не замечала. Для меня это все свелось к очень большому рабочему стрессу, потому что все звонили, все связывались, все просили комментарии, все просили подтверждений, приезжали. Всем надо было как-то помогать, координировать.

Leonid Velekhov : Of course. Была очень большая и очень серьезная история.

Светлана Прокопьева : Это не моя заслуга, а заслуга Алексея и Льва Марковича.

Леонид Велехов : А Алексей где сейчас работает?

Светлана Прокопьева : Все там же. Алексей, между прочим, еще и писатель: он пишет книги.

Leonid Velekhov : Great! Видите, сколько в том же Пскове талантов и не просто талантов, а честных и принципиальных настоящих журналистов. Потому что все-таки журналист – это профессия, требующая позиции и каких-то моральных, нравственных и этических твердых основ. В Пскове вас узнают на улице, подходят? It happens?

Светлана Прокопьева : К счастью – нет. ( Laughter in the studio ).

Леонид Велехов : А почему «к счастью»?

Светлана Прокопьева : Ну, не очень уютно, когда тебя начинают узнавать на улице. Нет, я нормально живу обычной жизнью. Даже кассирша из банка, которая помогает мне оплачивать коммунальные услуги… Это теперь целая история, как я оплачиваю коммунальные услуги.

Леонид Велехов : А как это можно сделать, когда все заблокировано?

Светлана Прокопьева : А! Так закон-то позволяет на обязательные платежи разблокировать. Обязательные платежи – это налоги, в том числе коммуналка.

Леонид Велехов : Как все продумано, однако!

Светлана Прокопьева : Да, еда – это необязательный платеж, лекарства – это необязательный платеж, а вот налоги государству вынь да положь. Поэтому я хожу, пишу заявление, служба безопасности Сбербанка рассматривает это заявление, назначают срок, когда мне надо прийти.

Леонид Велехов : Так это несколько раз в месяц такая волынка?

Светлана Прокопьева : Зачем несколько раз? Я накапливаю долги, не мучаю людей лишний раз. ( Laughter in the studio ).

Леонид Велехов : Тоже способ.

Светлана Прокопьева : Назначают день, я прихожу, жду. Они при мне, когда я в отделении, разблокировывают конкретную сумму… В общем, это такая тягомотина! И кассирша, которая занимается этой сложной работой, не сразу знала про мой "случай". Первый раз она просто была в шоке и не понимала, что делать дальше. Во второй раз прихожу, она уже говорит: "Ну, как у вас там – ничего не изменилось?" Я говорю: "Нет. Это надолго". ( Laughter in the studio ).

Леонид Велехов : Вы упоминали тех людей, которые тоже оказались под преследованием за свои репосты по поводу истории с этим парнем и терактом в Архангельске. За них же тоже нужно как-то заступаться и какую-то кампанию вести…

Светлана Прокопьева : Безусловно. Несколько дел уже дошло до суда, и есть даже два приговора с реальными сроками, в Сочи и в Тольятти, но там, насколько я понимаю, люди признали свою вину. Еще дошло дело в Калининграде до суда: там молодой парень получил штраф 300 тысяч рублей. Сейчас мы как раз хотим подготовить текст и рассказать о том, в какой стадии там это все. Есть еще дело в Вологодской области, в городе Вытегра, в отношении коммунистки Надежды Ромасенко. Что с ней происходит, тоже пока неясно.

И еще надо упомянуть Катю Муранову. Она живет в Медвежьегорске, малюсеньком городке. У нее совсем тяжелая ситуация. Поэтому если наши дорогие зрители могут как-то помогать, найдите ее, пожалуйста, в "Фейсбуке" и перечисляйте.

Леонид Велехов : Ее родители выгнали из дома, кажется...

Светлана Прокопьева : Родители не поняли всего этого дела. Друзья тоже как-то не поняли, отвернулись. И она очень долго вообще о себе не рассказывала и существовала на пожертвования каких-то анархистских групп, которые помогают своим заключенным. У нее больной ребенок, с астмой; ей не найти работу. Это печально, конечно.

Леонид Велехов : Что в вас переменилось, что вы пережили за этот год?

Светлана Прокопьева : Я, конечно, стала жестче, наверное, злее, бескомпромисснее, наверное, в чем-то. Я убедилась в том, что я говорила правильные вещи, когда писала эту колонку, действительно мы живем в репрессивном государстве…

Леонид Велехов : Ваша история просто, что называется, тому убедительное доказательство. Но я надеюсь, что все-таки она завершится благополучно.

Светлана Прокопьева : Надежда умирает последней.

Леонид Велехов : Все будут живы – и надежда, и вера, и любовь – и все, рано или поздно, переменится к лучшему.

Светлана Прокопьева : Безусловно! И я очень надеюсь дожить до того момента, когда все переменится к лучшему.

Леонид Велехов : Дожить до прекрасной России будущего, правильно?

Светлана Прокопьева : Именно – до прекрасной России будущего! Наша мечта! ( Laughter in the studio ).

Леонид Велехов : Света, спасибо вам большое за этот разговор о невеселых событиях, но разговор очень живой с множеством улыбок, смеха… Так и надо переносить трудности, наверное.

Светлана Прокопьева : Да! Спасибо большое, Леонид!

Leonid Velekhov : Thank you!