"Men have no will to admit this problem"

State Duma deputy Oksana Pushkin is one of the authors of the bill on domestic violence, because of him they threaten her. We talked with her

The State Duma is preparing to adopt a law on counteracting domestic violence - such bills were submitted to the parliament repeatedly, but over and over again they went to revision. The new document was written with the participation of ministries, law enforcement agencies, senators and social activists, voting on it should take place until the end of 2019. At the same time, the bill is criticized by conservative movements and some departments: for example, in October the Ministry of Justice stated that the scale of domestic violence in Russia is exaggerated. In November, the co -author of the bill, State Duma deputy Oksana Pushkin spoke about threats addressed from the Orthodox movement “Forty forties”. Pushkin has been engaged in the topic of domestic violence in Russia for several years. In an interview with the Medusa specialist Sasha Sulim, she told what the new law will be about, why the problem of violence can no longer be ignored, as well as the accusations of work on the West and who can stand behind these accusations.

-On November 23, a rally was held in Sokolniki in defense of traditional values ​​and against the law on the prevention of family violence. On the eve of its holding, one of the organizers of the action, the leader of the forty forty, Andrei Kormukhin, turned to you and invited you to come to Sokolniki and “express his position”. Why did you decide not to go there and not answer these people?

- Because such serious issues as writing a bill are not resolved on the street; Therefore, we work, and let them rally. I am a whole and organized person. It is incomprehensible to participate in what I am not going to.

When the conversation with me begins with the phrase “you are a foreign agent”, everything that is pronounced after, it seems to me invalid. Yes, I worked in America in the early 1990s, but the country sent me there. I went there from Leningrad television and shot stories about popular people in the world, including the Russians living outside the homeland. I had a residence permit and work [in the USA]. I handed over this document, according to the law, as soon as I decided to run for the State Duma. By the way, my colleagues in the Duma also acted - deputies Irina Rodnina and Vyacheslav Fetisov. All confirming documents are in the CEC.

In recent years, I have been an official representative of the State Duma on Women's Entrepreneurship at the World Bank as part of the G20. And member of the Russian delegation in PACE. These are my additional official duties to protect Russia's interests abroad.

They also tell me: “Do not go into the family! Gays, lesbians captured everything around. ” It is incredibly strange to hear this, firstly, because I am Straight , and secondly, the very formulation of “climb into the family” is at least incorrect. The bill is not about this. But I support supporters of sex education, for example, and therefore I am the trustee of the "Speed ​​Center" and support the sex educational.

- What other claims do you hear?

-At our request, St. Petersburg State University studied the topic of domestic violence in our country and analyzed, including publications on social networks. It turned out that our opponents are concentrated mainly on three topics: on the fact that co-authors are “foreign agents”, that we support the LGBT community and feminists.

I understand perfectly well what people are behind the organization of all these rallies-among them both HIV-dissidents and anti-pristes. There are those who spoke out against the film “Matilda” two years ago under the motto “For traditional values”, cynically hiding behind Orthodoxy. Thanks to my place of work, journalistic experience and second education in the specialty “National Security”, together with colleagues from the relevant structures, I was able to compare some facts and make out in this movement several protests that were united together. Now against the bill. Conclusion: behind all this movement are people who have a lot of money, state contracts and so on - but there is no status. Abroad, their move is closed by sanctions. And they are already waving not only where I work today, but also higher.

Therefore, everything that is happening is now is a demonstration of their strength. “Forty forties” is one of the ingredients of this undigested dish. This, let's say, a power block. There are movements, funds, public organizations. It's not just troublemaken. I repeat, in my opinion, this is a well -organized, seriously financial structure.

- These people - from power or from large capital?

- I cannot name the surname. I can only say that the interests of the oligarchs and other people are involved here. My chef [State Duma Speaker] Vyacheslav Volodin very correctly oriented us - deputies at the very beginning of work: “If you have claims that you can prove, go to court. Until this point, do not get to the individual. ” Therefore, as a deputy of the State Duma, I gathered the entire evidence base and sent it to the Federal Security Service.

In the same way, we did two years ago with Irina Rodnina, when we turned to the same agency to check for the extremism of the “Forty Forty” movement - they then joined the campaign around the film “Matilda” and acted illegally.

- People whose names do not want to name, really against the law on domestic violence - or are they just using it as an occasion?

- On the part of their customers, this is a demonstration of power. There are also the most ordinary gullible, cordial people who are subject to this powerful propaganda against the law. I don’t want to say anything more specifically, this should be proved by those to whom I have contacted an official deputy request. If they say that there is no composition, then I was mistaken.

But even by looking at the selection of publications in the press, which began immediately after we announced that the working group under the leadership of Galina Karelova began to work, we can draw conclusions that publications picked up and began to pervert the essence of the bill. Who is behind these media and who, respectively, finances them. And if you recall the Matildait, “Ventengotyit” and AIDS-dissidents, then everywhere the same beautiful word pops up-“Orthodoxy”. That's the trouble.

- That is, Orthodoxy is just a screen behind which they hide?

- For some - yes. But faith and Orthodoxy have nothing to do with violence. I respect any religion. And I am very offended that “these people” hide behind the purity and sincerity of faith.

A few days ago, we began to attack from the Citizengo platform. Letters with the same content constantly come to us by mail: against the law, against Pushkina. The same thing happens in the Federation Council. I understand that it is important for these people to get into the TOP news. They found a headliner by the name of Pushkin - a very cool surname, and in the West it sounds good.

The position “I did not watch the film, but already against it,” or “I have not read the law, but I am opposed to it.” I do not want to contribute to their access to the TOP news, so I do not enter into communication with them and do not answer their invitations to participate in rallies. Do you need a headliner? Look among your own! Let those who pay you leave the rear and begin their election campaigns - they want to become public politicians!

In general, this is a very dangerous story in which we all participate now. Flying out with such people, [as those] who organized a campaign against the bill, allow them to penetrate into the Duma, other authorities and have their “followers and agents” there is very risky. Radicalism, traditionalism, extremism is a very subtle line between all these concepts.

- In our country, there is still a certain monopoly of the state on a campaign like the one that is happening around the law on domestic violence. At least, most often they are associated with people who are affiliated with some state structures. Do you connect the organizers of rallies and those who sent threats to you and the other authors of the bill?

- rallies and threats are still different things. Threats received my co -authors in social networks, and I immediately said that they must be taken to a public. I learned this lesson, even when I went through the history with injections and actually sued the mafia of aesthetic medicine. They tried to buy me then, they offered me millions, and I refused, and threats began to come to me. Then people from the power structures told me: "Take it into a public, in this case it is part of the self -defense."

Everything is clear about rallies: there are people who go to power and who want to show their army, they are adjacent to those who are paid to be left, and those who were wound.

I constantly repeat: there is no law yet. The consolidated text is developed based on all our wishes and recommendations of various departments. We were in such a hurry to justify ourselves, to show that we were right, that we began to show the options for developments to their “well -wishers” - people, as it seemed to us, are very adequate. And these people began to hysteria, shout: "You are breeding everyone!"

- And what so frightened your “well -wishers”?

- In the midst of persecution - and what is happening now is precisely the persecution against the co -authors of the bill - a colleague called me, a very strong and powerful person, and says: “When I was little, I witnessed how my dad raised my hand to my mom. I told him then: “When I grow up, I will kill you.” Then I asked my mother: “Why are you tolerate all this?” And my mother said to me: “Because I love him very much, you will grow up - you will understand.” Therefore, I am against violence. But against this bill. " And then there was such a wording: "They do not need to be diluted, they must be treated." I [wanted to say]: "So the bill is about the same!" But the colleague no longer heard me. Hang the phone. But he did not even read the text.

I am absolutely convinced that it is impossible to give our positions, that the new law must be mandatory. With all definitions and conceptual apparatus. It’s like with a diagnosis: if you do not put it, you will not understand how to treat it. The diagnosis must be made and treated.

- Are we talking about recognizing the very fact of the existence of the problem of domestic violence in Russia?

- Yes, and now no one will argue with this. Thanks to the University of St. Petersburg, we have four volumes of a scientific study ordered by the State Duma, in which there are, in particular, the following figures: domestic violence is used in every 10th family, 70% of the Russians surveyed passed or pass through homemade violence, 80% of them are women, old people and children follow them. Over 90% of cases of family violence occurs only at home; In 77% of cases, physical, psychological and economic violence occurs at the same time; Over 35% did not apply to law enforcement agencies for help. For various reasons: psychological (shame, fear) and institutional (distrust, fear that they will not provide help).

In general, it is very difficult to talk about statistics now - it usually begins to be fixed five years after the adoption of the law. This is world practice. But there are statistics from crisis centers: both state and private. This is our internal statistics, obtained thanks to those who have been engaged in this topic for many years. Now the abscess has opened, and we began to unite, look for each other, and specific numbers appeared. And now a scientific research.

- If at the state level this problem is recognized why the Deputy Minister of Justice wrote in the ECHR that in Russia the situation with domestic violence is “exaggerated”?

- The Deputy Minister of Justice and he himself hit, and the government set up. Two days before he voiced all this, our working group gathered in the Federation Council, and his colleagues from the Ministry of Justice, as well as from the Supreme Court, the Prosecutor's Office, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Ministry of Labor, the Ministry of Labor said that the problem was and we must solve it. By that time, they all had already watched the university’s report, everyone was already in the subject, besides this person by the name of Galperin. He, apparently, did not even understand that just in Strasbourg now it was necessary to conduct another rhetoric at all: in the ECHR there were several dozen affairs of domestic violence from Russia. Not to know about it is extreme unprofessionalism. And if you know - cynicism.

When I was at a conference of European power structures, I asked representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of those countries in which the law was adopted, to tell us the best practices. Now we are studying them. After the adoption of the law, special training of police and district police officers will be held at the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

I spoke with the [Russian] police officers, and they told me that they were not going to calls from women who are subjected to domestic violence because they know that the next day they and her husband would make peace and take the statement, and there will be a “hanging” on the police. Then I asked: "And if there is a law, something will change in your work?" They answered this: “In this case, the boss will not be able to blame me for“ hanging ”because I will do everything I can, according to the law.” That is, even from the inside, the systems agree with us.

- Why does this law meet such resistance in the Duma?

- Many colleagues believe that the legislative framework today is enough to protect the victims of domestic violence. And then, we are children of our time. How usually they say? “They always beat and be beaten”, “family is inviolable”, “I can’t take it from the hut”, “it beats means”, “crooked, oblique, but mine.” But this mentality is changing, other women and men who acutely feel, first of all, have come to this world. Why did the Sexual Harassment theme arise, why did the #Metoo movement arise? Because at some point the quantity turned into quality, because everyone is tired of living as before.

Young women will not live like that. They are different, they want to protect themselves from an aggressive world, therefore, building their family, they want everything to be in love, respect and in general agreement. And it sounds wild for those who are used to the principle of "who is strong, one and the main in the family."

Then they will tell me that I sound in a waist. In the Duma, many believe that I have promoted Western values, despite the fact that I spent only six years there, and here I have already lived-20. Rodnina and Fetisov, as soon as we learned that under the new legislation, the State Duma does not have the right to have dual citizenship and residence permit in another country, we came to the consulate and handed over our Green Caps. We, who lived, who worked there are very law -abiding ones. I do not cross the road to the red light and in the wrong place, I always fasten.

- What clauses of the law do you consider key?

- We waved to all four types of violence, but even if we leave only physical, we will fight for the concept of “persecution” and for two security orders - despite the fact that all over the world it is only one. The first is extrajudicial, it is written by the district police officer and warns the rapist that he will receive the next one in court.

What will be spelled out in this security order, we will not voice yet. If in general terms, there will be provisions that it is impossible to approach the victim, she cannot be pursued, read her correspondence and so on. In fact, this is all for which spears are now beating, everything else is a wrapping and a fraud that comes from those who believe that the family is a closed cell.

- Many still think of that a woman will begin to use a security order to evict her husband from the apartment that belongs to him ...

- We are going to register the procedure for each situation. This is all that I can say on this issue.

But loopholes can be found everywhere. Laws must be able to read and interpret, learn to understand where the danger is and where not, then there will be no fuel of this. And now anyone can be blackmailed by eviction, taking a good lawyer. Who does not have the opportunity to pay for a good lawyer - they tolerate beatings. In the future, thanks to our law, the victim of domestic violence will have a crisis center within its region, to which money will be allocated from the budget.

Now I am watching the domino effect - like C #Metoo. I have already experienced a “sexual revolution” with a Harassment in the State Duma - then I was also alone, many of my friends did not share my point of view.

When I just started this topic [domestic violence], almost none of my colleagues, with rare exceptions, joined me. Apparently observed. And the other day, at a joint conference with the Swedish parliamentarians, my colleagues suddenly took the microphone - one of the Tula, the other from Kursk - and began to talk about the importance of the problem of domestic violence. I even told everyone present that for the first time in a long time I ended up in a situation where I did not need to make excuses, because everyone around me understands this problem.

- They tried to bring the law to the State Duma more than 40 times, why right now it has moved from the dead point?

- Each project must ripen. For the first time, I heard this phrase from Sasha Lyubimov when I came to him to the “look”, returning from America. They told me: “Let's make an alternative“ I myself ”-Julia Menshova’s current show.” I suggested doing something chamber. Lyubimov doubted. Но я сделала это, а судьба проекта была решена [Константином] Эрнстом, [соучредителем телекомпании «ВИД» Андреем] Разбашем и [режиссером] Денисом Евстигнеевым. Они сказали: «Это только Первый канал, и это абсолютно „Женские истории“». То, чем я занимаюсь в профессиональной жизни, — непопулярная тема. Права женщин. Discrimination. Гендерное равенство. Demography. Но это моя тема, я в ней невероятно глубоко, прочно и надолго.

— Если бы вы не вписались за этот законопроект…

— Ничего бы не было. И оппоненты законопроекта, выбрав меня объектом травли среди всех инициаторов, таких как Татьяна Москалькова, Галина Карелова, Валентина Матвиенко, это понимают и по сути правы.

And the second point. Если бы адвокаты всех жертв домашнего насилия не работали так хорошо, если бы они не дошли до ЕСПЧ, защищая своих подопечных — тоже ничего бы не было. Это был сигнал серьезный для всех ветвей власти. Я три года убеждала своих коллег доработать или написать новый вариант законопроекта о профилактике домашнего насилия, который нужно вносить в Госдуму. Никто не отказывал, но и в бой, как говорится, не рвался.

И только когда львиная работа была произведена СПЧ, уполномоченным по правам человека, Советом Федерации, на съезде «Единой России» 23 ноября ко мне подошел [председатель Комитета Госдумы по государственному строительству и законодательству] Павел Крашенинников и сказал: «Ну, давай уже, соберемся, все обсудим и будем вносить!» There are no complaints. Есть огромный приобретенный опыт.

— Почему Крашенинников именно тогда подошел к вам?

— Потому что работа уже идет, она уже практически завершена. Он очень доброжелательный, профессиональный человек — но все это время был, видимо, очень загружен работой и о законе смог поговорить со мной только сейчас, на съезде. А подавать-то мы будем от комитета.

— Почему все-таки закон не был принят до сих пор?

— Потому что руководят политикой в нашей стране в основном мужчины, у которых нет воли признать проблему домашнего насилия. Мы живем в мужском государстве. У нас в стране 54% женщин, но у нас нет женского вопроса. Де-юре мы [женщины] присутствуем в политике. Де-факто мы не участвуем в управлении государством. Мы сопровождаем, поддерживаем, исполняем. Но не формируем тенденции развития государства. Кстати, закон о профилактике домашнего насилия в других странах принимался только тогда, когда в их парламентах число женщин и мужчин становилось равным — пресловутое гендерное равенство.

Сейчас мы можем одерживать маленькие или большие победы, но должно смениться поколение, чтобы изменения стали ощутимы, я бы дала на это 25 лет. Я хочу, чтобы моя внучка не испытывала на себе никакого насилия. Мои дети — невестка и сын — живут, не поднимая друг на друга руки. Мы люди, мы должны учиться разговаривать, слышать и слушать друг друга.

У меня многие спрашивают: «Вы сами, наверное, подвергались насилию?» Но я счастливая в этом плане женщина. Мама могла меня схватить за ухо и поддать могла, но это было не про насилие. Но когда мы слышали, как пьяный сосед бьет мою одноклассницу, мама всегда звонила участковому, он приходил и укладывал этого отца-алкоголика в ЛТП . Вот мы сейчас приняли в первом чтении закон про ЛТП — это очень правильная инициатива. Это все туда — причину-то насилия ведь тоже надо лечить.

— Государственные СМИ поддерживают вашу инициативу?

— У Дмитрия Киселева в итоговой программе по «России-1» минут 40 рассказывали про домашнее насилие и готовящийся законопроект. Маргарита Симоньян говорила о важности закона в «Вечере» у Владимира Соловьева, на «России-24» все выходные показывали репортажи о пострадавших от мужей-насильников женщинах.

— Обычно такие информационные волны без указания сверху не случаются.

— Они случились. Оксана Пушкина — не последний человек в медиабизнесе. Вот ты говоришь, что если бы не я, то закона бы не было. Я знаю, что ничего бы не было без такого питбуля — так меня называют недоброжелатели, — как я: убежденного и умеющего убеждать.

— Вы чувствуете себя в оппозиции?

-To some extent, yes. По некоторым вопросам однозначно.

— И каково вам в ней быть?

— Меня спасают мои 30 лет публичности. С 1986 года я на экране. А опыт, который я приобрела, когда в 40 лет, в самом расцвете женской привлекательности, крупным планом на экране показала всем свое лицо, обезображенное «уколом красоты», сняв фильм про мафию в эстетической медицине, бесценный. Меня все вокруг рассматривали и фотографировали потом повсюду. В аэропортах, поездах, на пляже, в спортзале — я железобетонная уже.

Я пришла в Думу с огромным ТВ-опытом прямого эфира на Первом канале, где у тебя, образно говоря, выбивают стул за минуту до команды «Мотор!», а ты при этом должна выйти и мягким голосом сказать: «Героиня сегодняшней истории…» Не на ту нарвались.

Но это трудно — держать удар. Эту мою миссию в работе над нашим законопроектом вряд ли кто-то еще выдержит. Ирина Роднина сможет. Может быть, еще пара людей. Тут все должно быть в гармонии: знание темы, характер, пассионарность, если хотите, и опыт прохождения через огонь, воду и медные трубы. Когда тебя в окно, а ты говоришь: «Идите лесом — я все равно добьюсь своей цели!»

Sasha Sulim