"And they could shoot ..."

The most humane court in the world sentenced student Yegor Zhukov by a conditional time

A terrible repressive sentence of extremism for Yegor Zhukov still ended with a conditional term. Short "Paris thaw"? What do ideologists of "Moscow business" achieve? Total fear? In the studio, friends and like -minded people of Zhukov, an activist of Open Russia, Maria Kuznetsova and municipal deputy Sergei Vlasov , lawyer Yegor Zhukova Murad Musaev and journalist Semen Novoprudsky .

Full video version of the program

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Zhukov supporting people welcome his exit from the court

Elena Rykovtseva: You saw shots like Yegor Zhukov, released today in the courtroom, descends to his supporters. But before that, leaving this building, he said the words on the porch.

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The first words of Zhukov after leaving the court

Elena Rykovtseva: This, of course, is relative freedom - a conditional period. The verdict was terrible at all, he was charged with a very serious crime. We will listen to this sentence with fragments. The hair stood on the end of those who listened to him, and it seemed that everything would be taken away from here in handcuffs. But, apparently, something happened, some rod caught on a wheel, nevertheless, it was decided to release Yegor Zhukov to freedom. People with us, thanks to whom, maybe this happened. Maria Kuznetsova, a friend of Yegor and a civil activist, almost a witness to searches in his house. With us, Sergey Vlasov, a politician and a municipal deputy, is also a supporter of Yegor. With us, Semen Novoprudsky, a journalist. Murad Musaev, Yegor’s lawyer, will be with us. We apologize for a good mood today to those who are bad, those who have received real terms. Such a serious threat to the freedom of Yegor Zhukov was, which, of course, our relief can be understood. Let's go from the history of searches, how it looked, why searches, why were you there?

Maria Kuznetsova: The fact is that I have been friends with Yegor, we have been familiar with more than a year. Together we talked on some political issues. When they came to him at two in the morning from August 2 to 3, he wrote to my friend. We immediately raised the alarm. It so happened that I live next to the place where Yegor was then, we, accordingly, rushed to him. In the courtyard stood, conditionally, a "black funnel", there is simply a civilian car, people in civilian clothes. Obviously, they are there for a reason, in the sleeping area of Moscow at night. We were waiting for a lawyer, no one could let us inside. Then we entered the first search, when Yegor took it, my parents and I went inside, looked at what was happening. Then I was on the second search when they tried to retrain the case from the 212nd article to the 280th. The famous Libertarian flag and figures of frogs were seized. Then I, together with Yegor’s parents, went through during a search of an apartment. Of course, I did not like that we came, that we, in fact, did not allow them to finish the search.

Elena Rykovtseva: Semyon, you were waiting for today what sentence, what were you laid on?

Semen Novoprudsky: I relate to those who did not immediately believe that we should say that some thaw came, as they began to say when they first released Pavel Ustinov, when some people changed the measure to subscription about the lower room. I was sure that the verdict would be a guilty, but I really hoped that after all, the attempts of the Russian authorities are medios to pretend, that in some cases we are retreating, maybe they would play into the hands of someone. If you notice, all four of today's sentences were fundamentally different, although they tried people for almost the same thing. There is no precedent right in Russia, for the same thing they do not judge the same way. But the fact that a person never knows what he will be given for the same, in my opinion, a crime, that in Russia, article 305 of the Criminal Code has not yet been applied for the adoption of obviously unlawful sentences is very significant. I was sure that there would be a conviction, but I was not sure what terms would be given to whom. It seemed to me that they should not give along the upper limit, after all, there was still a rather strong media wave around this. These were rather resonant affairs by Russian standards. And in the case of resonant matters, the Russian authorities sometimes do not immediately, not only backward, but it usually does not use the most stringent measures. It is wonderful that at least people manage to beat off. It is terrible that such sentences are sentenced, and the fact that in general such things are being fabricated. In fact, no one is safe from this, and the system itself has not yet ceased to factory and use as a way of pressure on people.

Elena Rykovtseva: Sergey, what have you been waiting for today, in what condition did you come to this court?

Sergey Vlasov: Yesterday in social networks I wrote that, most likely, they would give 4 years, they will put it. What the prosecutor's office asked, then the court will award. Of course, the fact that we saw this result today is conditionally 3 years - this happened only thanks to public pressure. Only due to the fact that people went to court. The day before yesterday I was at the court, it seemed to me that people were not enough. It seems to me that if the day before yesterday and yesterday and today there would be a large people, perhaps everything would be a little more differently.

Elena Rykovtseva: I agree with you that the number always affects. But the fact that you, leaving the metro, saw people with the posters "Freedom Yegor Zhukov", there were picketers in front of the intersection - it was already serious and important. When the judge read this sentence, all who heard it, we were absolutely, fell through everyone, it is impossible to describe our feelings, so wound up horror. The main thing is that the judge agreed that this lawyer, whom you laughed at social networks, who generally no one to call him, she agreed with absolutely all his arguments. She shaved absolutely all the arguments of the defense. That is, the judge adopted the indictment from and to. During this reading, it just stood on end, it seemed that no hope was left. In order for our audience to get an idea that we feel when we listened, let's try to study it.

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Fragments of the sentence to Yegor Zhukov

Elena Rykovtseva: One of Yegor’s lawyers, Murad Musaev in touch with us. Murad, we congratulate you on your professional, this is a success, of course. I understand correctly that while you listened to this monstrous sentence, you probably had the feeling that it would not be possible to pull it out?

Murad Musaev: I would say that these probabilities were equal, the probability of real and conditional imprisonment. Still, there was a hope that such a pitch hell, such as real imprisonment, arrest in the courtroom, would not occur taking into account this case.

Elena Rykovtseva: We all came there with this hope. But when we heard the head of the crimes that he "committed", including the crime that he studied well, which means he was even better aware of the severity of the deed ...

Murad Musaev: By the way, we must pay tribute to the talent of a judge who managed to use the positive characteristics of the higher school of the economy as something exacerbating guilt.

Elena Rykovtseva: I want to ask about frogs. She said twice that the frogs would be destroyed. What is this in these frogs that stood on his table, that one sentence should be required twice to make a line about their destruction?

Murad Musaev: I honestly don't know. I have the feeling that the person who wrote the plot of this case added these frogs there to give him additional absurdity. This is just an object that fell into the frame of the very videos that are discussed, the interior prime minister. He was least lucky, quite real, not at all conditional punishment, apparently, will be changed from some overseas sausage during the next call of bulldozers.

Elena Rykovtseva: We hope that in your cassation the requirement to return the frogs and not subject them to the procedure for destruction.

Murad Musaev: I think we will try to save them.

Elena Rykovtseva: Once again I apologize to our audience that we laugh, but this is nervous, believe me. I would like you to comment on us these prohibitions. We have now listened to the final part of the sentence that he is deprived of the right to "engage in activities related to the administration of sites using electronic or telecommunication networks, including the Internet for a term of two years." How do you explain what the site administration is? Are you, when you are leading your blog, are you an administrator?

Murad Musaev: This blog, in my opinion, is not a site. Be that as it may, we perfectly understand that there is an attempt to save an unlimited circle of people from Zhukov Blogger. In my opinion, with this formulation, he can safely take part in online discovers, even lead a blog on social networks. But then, I think, it will be difficult to prove to such a court that conducting a discussion online is not a site administration. The court, which recognizes the call for peaceful non -violent protest, and an appeal to the armed rebellion in order to change the basics of the constitutional system, can be called any sneezing on the network an act of administration of the site.

Elena Rykovtseva: Do I understand correctly that the whole part, which speaks of how he should behave, is aimed at plugging him, just so that a person stops speaking publicly with his thoughts?

Murad Musaev: We understand that this is exactly the case. Another thing is that there are media products, there are other sites that are not related to administration on the Internet. In addition, there is an opportunity to give interviews that are published on sites that it does not administer, and so on. This does not mean that Yegor will do all this - this is a matter of his personal discretion. But I think that this wording is unlikely to shut up a person who wants to speak. It should be borne in mind that he has already said. Now he understands that any two words can be interpreted as a call for some crime. I am surprised that nevertheless he was not charged with a call to the genocide, to ethnocide, to the ecocide, to some other crimes. Because he did not say anywhere in his video that he did not call for this.

Elena Rykovtseva: He says through one word in his blogs - non -violent, in no case forcibly, a change in power is non -violent. He is charged with extremism. How he should decorate his words, I don't even know.

Murad Musaev: I am afraid that in this situation and silence is dangerous, because he can be accused of silently called for something. He was silent, which means he could keep in mind that power should be overthrown. I'm not joking now. This is also quite the logic of expert Korshikov and the court. There is absolutely no laughing.

Elena Rykovtseva: It’s not at all laughing, taking into account the fact that we listened to the whole sentence, that Korshikov, it turns out, is an expert on the wow. His conclusion was absolutely accepted.

Murad Musaev: I quite highly appreciate the intellectual abilities of the judge, I'm not joking here. And with a conceptual apparatus, she is also fine. To be honest, I expected that in her sentence there would be a much more independent assessment of the video watched in order to support Korshikov’s conclusions, but independently, in new formulations, with a new original approach. But in a certain sense there was disappointment, because all conclusions regarding the nature of the video were copied by Korshikov. In reality, the conclusion was almost rewritten in the sentence.

Elena Rykovtseva: What should we conclude that her task included absolutely confirmed everything, to confirm all the accusations, to subscribe to all the accusations? She did not want to introduce creativity in all this?

Murad Musaev: The creative beginning, in my opinion, was involved, especially in the part where the characteristic was mentioned. I wouldn’t think of it, I would be on the side of evil, that's to this.

Elena Rykovtseva: Are your further actions in the Zhukov case? You will appeal, I understand correctly?

Murad Musaev: I do not lie to you if I say that we still have not discussed this issue with the principal. I think we will meet in a calm mode the other day, discuss all the pros and against the content of the future appeal.

Elena Rykovtseva: There is a chance that it will not be, there are some "against"?

Murad Musaev: The fact is that the verdict can be changed not only for the better, but also for the worst if our respected procedural opponents submit an appeal representation. So it is accepted in the Russian prosecutor’s practice that if by default they are not going to file submissions, if the defense filed a complaint in order to balance the situation somehow, the performance is submitted. If you imagine that such a representation by our prosecutors will be submitted, over the next month, in Russian domestic policy, something will happen that will change the installation, in short, there is always a risk.

Elena Rykovtseva: This is a serious matter. I call today's episode "Parisian thaw." He should fly the day after tomorrow, why new demonstrations with portraits of a beautiful young boy, student. Then he returns, he doesn’t care. Murad, we will congratulate you again today and wish you success in other matters that you are doing. Let everyone be good if possible. I propose to listen to the survey that we did today on the streets of Moscow. We asked people who are guided in this matter, to assume why still a conditional term.

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How do you explain that Yegor Zhukov gave a conditional term?

Continuation of the conversation with the calls of the audience from Moscow, Mozhaisk, the village of Zapolyarny, Novosibirsk and other cities of Russia, which explained why the authorities press Zhukov, look at the video and listen in sound