“In Russia, either Putin or Navalny. But there are shades "

Faberlic founder Alexei Nechaev created the “New People” party and immediately succeeded in the election. We asked him how it happened

Faberlic cosmetic company, Alexei Nechaev, is the leader of the New People party, which was created only this winter, but during the elections in September 2020 she was able to go into four regional legislators. Thus, the “new people” became the most successful project from among the new parties that appeared in the country almost simultaneously about six months ago - and, as many believe, with the assistance of the Kremlin. Alexei Nechaev told the Medusa specialist Andrei Peretsev, why no -known people and local activists were in the lists of his party, as he relates to the coalition with the supporters of Alexei Navalny and how he answers suspicions of cooperation with the authorities.

- Lists of "new people" went to four regional parliaments and the City Duma of Tomsk. Did you have some kind of minimum program for these elections? For example, go to at least one Legislative Assembly to get a benefit freed from the collection of signatures for nomination to the State Duma?

- Wherever we were allowed to the election, we went. The maximum program was to go through in all regions where we declared the elections: in six leaflets and in the municipal advice of Tomsk, Krasnodar, Rostov. In Rostov, a list of [parties] was cut down in the city, in Essentuki it was removed in court. By the way, the Communists were sued. According to the regional lists, we were not allowed in the Belgorod and Voronezh regions. The minimum program is in four areas and two cities. In Krasnodar, where our list was registered in the City Duma, our result was 4.99%, then dropped to 4.96%. These are too talking numbers, we believe that in fact we also passed there. The minimum is to go everywhere where we were allowed, it is fulfilled.

- Are the interest gained you suited?

- Good interest, they are more than five everywhere, that is, we did not go on a stretch, but, of course, we counted on more. In the plots, we put up two observers, were able to keep the plots from falsifications, but did not assume such a percentage of voting outside the sites. Previously, in the elections 15–20% of the home - it seemed that everything, kapets! And now the most liberal in this sense is Tomsk - 32%, and in Voronezh and Belgorod - there are three quarters of the far. What is this?

- And what gave you the result? In Novosibirsk, where I was during the campaign, campaigning the party was almost at every billboard, on banners, posters. Did she play such a role?

- Three terms of our victory in what? We found very good candidates, people who themselves did something, who are independent of the state, do not work in government agencies, corporations, do not receive grants. Candidates worked with people so - sometimes they are just civilian activists, but there are more well -known ones.

We had about 700 with small candidates, about a hundred after calls from local administrations said: “We will not [advance].” Some of the remaining six hundred, which were approved at conferences or in Moscow, approved lists, preferred in the process not to collect signatures: “I gathered - there was a call [from above], why do you need it ...” One candidate collected signatures - he was removed, he was going to sue. They called him: "Let's not sue, and in October you will become the principal of the school." Pressure and bribery affected our party.

So the first term is candidates with their liveliness: “We can’t imagine that they went from another party, but would never have gone!” This is a new type of candidates who did not think of themselves in politics. They were found by the children-capitalists. When I made an educational program eight years ago, I could not imagine that she would play in the elections in the construction of the party. In August last year, they told me: "What kind of garbage is happening in Moscow?" They were outraged by summer events [in the elections of the Moscow City Duma], this is their initiative to build a party. This is the second term of success. Third - we received real support for the regional press, bloggers. Including federal: Novaya Gazeta, Echo. People looked around, interviewed - looked, scraped. Then we saw that we were real. In the regions, this understood even faster. We first met a person from Novaya Gazeta in Ryazan, and then in Moscow thought: why does our Ryazan journalist give an interview earlier than we?

Advertising hardly brought anyone new, it has become no more than a reminder for those who support us and so. People will not come to vote for us, because we have billboards. In this sense, Kaluga, where we were forbidden to hang billboards, was not a single billboard, more indicative - there the percentage is higher than in Novosibirsk. Billboards are a reminder that we are alive and do not give up. But this is my view, I may be wrong.

“But still, candidates should be quite famous people to claim victory.” There were few of them. Why?

- New people are not necessarily [people] famous. Some celebrities have advertising contracts - they wrote to me 20 people: “Congratulations, well done, we will vote for you in the next election.” But earlier they refused to cooperate: "What are you, we have for tens of millions of rubles with companies, with Western ones, including ..."

- It's not even about celebrity - about local politicians who could enter the lists.

- Many good people are in Yabloko - but for them it will be a betrayal of their party. What do we want traitors? I'm not! I know ideological people in the Growth Party. Are we going to lure? People who have long wanted to get into politics are already somewhere.

- But it turned out that from the "new people" they were literally nounim.

- Well, we were also nousems, then became a village -forming company, then a large company. It is ugly to come to other parties and pull someone. Now, if someone wants to join our success, this is another story. We are not running after them, they will come to us. Maybe this is strange - but this is its own path, its own sequence of actions.

- Your candidates became deputies in several deputy meetings, including the City Duma of Tomsk. There, United Russia does not have a majority - she has 11 out of 37 seats. This means that the opposition coalition with a majority vote can gather in the City Duma: the supporters of Alexei Navalny, and the extensors of Yabloko, and the Communist Party, went to the meeting. Is your people entering such a coalition possible?

- We are now peering - who is there? This is decided by our Tomsk group. Should we decide or are they?

- The party line should still be.

- We are a republican and not an imperial party, why make an imperial party from us?

- Fine. They say: "We are united with supporters of Navalny and" Yabloko "." What do you say? Will you not forbid?

- Of course not! There is Navalny himself, but there are his people - these are two big differences. The advantages of Navalny are that he is a good journalist, the investigator - from him a lot of benefit. But one of the values ​​of our party is respect. For some reason, Navalny is simply called in our direction, God forbid him health, but he does not have any grounds for this. If his people are the same, then we will not cooperate with them. If people are normal, they are interested in the country, their city, then you can cooperate with them. While we share the skin of a not completely murdered bear. What resource does Navalny have and his people? We have more activists in Tomsk than their. Two people passed from them. Well, let's get acquainted. In Russia, either Putin, or Navalny, black and white. But there are shades, let's peer.

The communities we are close to, we cooperate. If supporters of Navalny do not respect anyone - how to cooperate with them? "Yablons", other people, we will see. Some independent deputies in Tomsk-who are they, what is their baggage?

- Is it possible to imagine a coalition with the Communists?

- In Novosibirsk, the Communists chopped us perfectly [did not allow us to register] in the city! They are no different from United Russia when they are in power. The Communists of the successors of the USSR - and behave. I won’t be surprised if the people of Navalny will behave like that - they are as irreconcilable. In the "Yabloko" there are a lot of democratic - we are not liberals, democratic values ​​are close to us. What, Navalny and his supporters are democrats? Not sure.

- Imagine the situation: a call comes from the Kremlin, demand that your candidates support United Russia as a candidate for the speakers of the deputy assembly, where United Russia does not have a majority. What then?

- We put up more than 10 thousand observers, there was a very different situation. But we found solutions everywhere for the benefit of the case. We stopped more than a thousand violations. Most of the place decided: remove pencils, handles should be according to the law. "Oh, sorry!" It is clear that the pencils lay for business. But as soon as you ampatal ... They caught one member of the weekend, the other - they have already made notes for United Russia, they see that you can’t throw it up, smeared [ticks] with a marker and tried to extinguish the ballots. Our man revealed this. On this occasion, no one called us. We would call - we would say: thanks, goodbye. You release the genie out of the bottle, you can’t drive it back. We were allowed to elections to the Legislative Assembly in four regions, we won everywhere. This is not done. They tried to fight with us in the field, but it did not work out.

In Kaluga there were obstacles to agitation, it did not work out to place it. There were four billboards in Kostroma, then they found people who do not care [to the opinion of local authorities] - they gave a dozen more. In the Ryazan region, we were not allowed to put billboards in the region, in the outback. United Russia-and-Mandaters go, [they] said: "We do not need such people." In the city [Ryazan] - no problem. Not the Kremlin does this, but the local deputies of the governors, the candidates themselves, who have everything captured. There is all the punks, which signed up for United Russia, and in Novosibirsk - also in the Communist Party. In Lipetsk, our candidate made all the signatures notarized - they were hacked. We have more than three hundred candidates cut down. If we were the Kremlin ... who would have won the four regions? Who would have worked like that?

-But the regional authorities somewhere put you on the polls, and somewhere they refused even from notarized signatures. So, the matter is their favor?

- They called from the administration of the region to the Ryazan headquarters - when we complained that billboards did not allow to hang: “Yes, we don’t care who goes to the polls, this is not us!” There are different reactions. In Krasnodar, no one came to us - they simply chopped all the single -mandate. It did not help Belgorod - we collected 18 thousand signatures, passed six, the best! [We] complained to the courts, but this is not working almost a thing - we were able to return only two single -mandate out of 300, who were cut down.

- The elections passed - you received the Duma benefit, promoted the name, brand. There was already a reaction from well -known politicians who are thinking, whether to go from you to go to the State Duma?

- They write SSMES, congratulations. Russia is so arranged that first you need to knock out the wedges, and then go.

-Do you have the mood of such promoted people?

- Another year before the elections, my back hurts from the past - three nights sat. There is more than a year ahead, if everything is fine. How do we know - will they or will not? They will - well, they won’t - also good. There will definitely not be people with shit, those who have nowhere to put on the seal.

- Let's get back to telephone law. In 2011, Mikhail Prokhorov was able to gather around him in the “right business” of different people, including oppositionists, but everything ended for this project is not very good. By a call from the presidential administration, he actually collapsed. Is such a scenario possible with you?

- We are also studying. Thanks to Mikhail Prokhorov, he showed where they can be caught. People sometimes study on other people's mistakes. What mistake was Prokhorov, why did he eventually take the party? He came to where there were already people. We are building our part from scratch, land, with people who do not expect money from the oligarch. Or the case with the “Party of Changes” Dmitry Gudkov and Ksenia Sobchak - they took the existing party, tried to take a new name, hold a congress. They [in the Ministry of Justice] did not sign anything. When we prepared the congress, I first offered one party structure for a small number of members, and then change it. Lawyers warned: the Ministry of Justice then may not miss these changes. They did everything at once.

- “Party of Change” could not change the charter, and the same ministe registered you without problems. What is this a window of possibilities?

-After Moscow events, even part of the elite, the same [head of Rostec Sergey] Chemezov, publicly spoke: enough people to crush with shields, we must offer something to them. In general, political dynamics is a fair wind for us: in Moscow, protests dispersed, while in Khabarovsk they do not disperse them.

- Until they disperse ...

- “So far” can be said to any thing. Time itself is changing, many officials, representatives of the elite imagine that with the political system that we have, we will reach not just to Belarus, but to Venezuela. And there a quarter of the country's population left. And they do not want it to be like that. There were different people around the president - for Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok. Now they have been replaced by people from security. Look, out of 16 civilian ministers, 10 people are different people from supervision.

- Including the premiere.

- Yes, he is a tax authority. The Minister of Education is the head of Rosobrnadzor, from whom schools cry. These are people of supervision, control, these are not people of business, all the more not people of development. The balance is shifted towards control, supervision, but who will do business and development? There is a request for this both in society and in elites. Is there a request, but are we like the answer to it? We are those who can satisfy this request? I understand that we can, and the result in the elections speaks about it.

-And yet you are very often called the "Kremlin project", reproach with this.

- Fine, let them reproach. Why have some regional elites missed us? Belgorod and Voronezh Pokhren, Kremlin or not, - they chopped it off. And some could think that the Kremlin ... Let's not dissuade them. If we were a Kremlin project, see the results. We went in four places. Why go to everyone? We took the [voices] from United Russia, from other beautiful people. How and what the Kremlin projects can, we see. On our roads, along the borders. I put a curb in my village, I know how much a Moscow border is standing. We see last year's protests in Moscow - this is how the Kremlin work. It is beneficial for Navalny to consider us a Kremlin project, it is beneficial for him to consider this way, he remains then the only oppositionist.

- But everything hints at handling from the Kremlin: first the party of Zakhara Prilepin appeared, then the “party of direct democracy”, or “party of tanks”, then you. Just before the elections to the Legislative Assembly.

- In Vedomosti there was an article that 38 projects [parties] were registered, remember? So there were 39 [with us]? Then there were suddenly four of them, and one went as much as four legislatures. And others passed as if passed.

- This election campaign, in fact, began with a vote according to the constitution. Did it somehow affect the alignment in the elections?

- I am not a political scientist, I act [in politics]. These are different stories, the constitution - one, regional elections - another, the State Duma - this is generally the third.

- Have you voted on that vote?

- No, I didn't go. We had a conversation in our party - a little less than two -thirds from the asset believed that if there is a position, then we must go vote. More than half believed that it was necessary to support amendments, including because the party factions in the State Duma received more authority to appoint a government. To the question about the "reversing" they answered: "We are still sure that Putin will not go to the polls in 2024." About 30–40% said: "If it does not go, then why" zero "?" There was a big discussion, we realized that we would make worse, the split of the asset on this topic. If I went, I would vote against.

-Due to "zeroing"?

-Due to "zeroing." But these days I specifically dangled: Ryazan, Voronezh, Belgorod. This day found me in Belgorod, I did not vote for technical reasons, we can say. But I would vote, would not vote, would our party say something about voting-what would change?

I believe that politics is to build something. We are building a party - day after day, month after month. We are building assets, built in 12 regions, now we begin to build throughout the country. We brought people from all over the country to the regions where there were elections. Now they, scorched by campaigns, are returning home. You say, “who is your famous”? Two years later, in five years will be! They will grow up!

- Probably, they will grow up, but the elections to the State Duma in a year, these candidates will have to develop and consider federal laws.

- Did you think in January that we could go to the State Duma? You considered us strange guys. And we won wherever they missed us. So they will grow up, you just need to do business.

- Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin, about whom we have already talked about, clearly becomes a super -public figure, takes more and more space in politics. How do you feel about him?

- Probably, it is not so important that I think about him: I do not know him, did not work. So far, our political weight is such that our opinion about Mishustin does not matter, at least, to Mishustin himself. Но если вам это важно… Мишустин как налоговый офицер сделал много хороших вещей: налоговики теперь не такие беспредельщики, он убрал налоговый рэкет. Но давление на бизнес и частных людей большое. В 2017 году консолидированный бюджет России был 31 триллион рублей, в 2019 году он составлял 39 триллионов, за два года он вырос на 25%, а экономика так не выросла. This is bad.

Эффективность Мишустина как офицера хороша, но для страны она вредна. Знаете, есть поговорка — строгость наших законов смягчается необязательностью их исполнения? В стране были высокие налоговые ставки. Пока они собирались тяп-ляп, люди могли жить. Когда их стали собирать всерьез — люди и бизнес стали страдать. Тот же повышенный НДС — это деньги людей. В прошлом году моя компания заплатила налогов 2,5 миллиарда рублей, мы не выросли по сравнению с 2017 годом, но тогда мы платили 1,5 миллиарда. Самозанятых стали облагать. Люди зарабатывали деньги, на хрена их стали плющить из-за этих копеек? Но Мишустин — инструмент, если его развернуть на другие цели, может, он эффективно бы их достиг. Это вопрос для общества — он может эффективно выжимать деньги из людей и компаний или еще может заниматься развитием? За президента идет борьба: он с силовиками или за развитие? Так же можно бороться и за Мишустина. Правительство назначает Госдуму, там будет решаться судьба страны, там нужны коалиции. И это важнее для меня, чем гордума Томска.

— Какие-то намеки на судьбу страны были уже в этот день голосования. Во многих регионах досрочно голосовало больше половины людей, такие цифры были и в Беларуси. В России идет «белорусизация», на ваш взгляд?

— Главное — это выездное голосование, с пеньками или без, оно легитимность начинает подрывать. Сползанию в «белорусизацию» надо препятствовать, то интервью Чемезова — это тоже попытка остановить сползание в Венесуэлу. «Белорусизация» — это промежуточная станция, «венесуэлизация» гораздо хуже.

- What can we do?

— Мы сейчас думаем… Вы хотите, чтобы я что-то сказанул такое! Но я думаю, чтобы такого не было. Многодневного голосования не должно быть, одно дело во время пандемии, но не постоянно! Может, ничего не смогу сделать с этим, а может, смогу.

— Новый съезд после победы не хотите собрать?

— Пока это будет рабочая встреча. Нам сказали после первого съезда, не публичного: «Новые люди не позвали старых». Сделали второй публичный съезд — начали говорить, что пришли не те.

— Например, журналисты Russia Today — тот же Антон Красовский, как гости.

— Мы звали больше людей, а пришли те, кто пришел. И это в первую очередь гости, это символ гостей. What is bad?

— При партии создан экспертный совет — в него вошли люди, известные как эксперты, как прокремлевские, так и оппозиционные — например, политолог Александр Кынев. Может, сразу этих людей в партию надо позвать?

— Это раньше в одну партию всех загоняли, и в КПСС, и в «Единую Россию». For what? Я вот «Единой России» никогда не состоял.

— А в ОНФ состоите…

— Это надпартийный проект. Что мне нравится в ОНФ? Там много людей, к которым я хорошо отношусь: Елена Шмелева, Алексей Комиссаров. Шмелева могла сделать «Сириус» и почивать на лаврах, но она следит, что с детьми происходит дальше. Она увидела, что нет системы работы с талантливыми детьми в России, поэтому стала строить систему организаций, созданных по принципу «Сириуса». Я записался к ней в группу в ОНФ, мне было интересно, записался в группу к Комиссарову. Мы стали с этими проектами работать.

Это хорошая площадка, чтобы разобраться в какой-то тематике, познакомиться с людьми. Но это не место, где ты можешь что-то изменить. Как только мы стали политической партией и начали критиковать Министерство образования и просвещения, они сразу заметили наши образовательные инициативы. Получается, что в партии ты можешь сделать больше, чем участвуя в ОНФ и в Общественной палате. Конечно, плюсы у таких форм декоративной демократии есть. [Политолог Екатерина] Шульман много чего делала в СПЧ .

— Есть две точки зрения на сотрудничество с властью: либо оппозиция никак не сотрудничает с ней, либо так называемая теория малых дел — вроде бы полезные инициативы заканчиваются полным слиянием с властью. Какого сценария вы бы придерживались?

— Первую позицию я понимаю, она по-своему последовательна. Но чтобы что-то сделать, надо что-то делать. Вот, например, выборы: рад ли я, что нас не пустили в Воронеже или Белгороде? Я не рад. Но даже там, где мы участвовали, мы поняли, как это [избираться]. Если не входить в процессы, ты не понимаешь, как это устроено. У нас своя последовательность: если мы обеспечим наше участие в муниципальных советах, областных заксобраниях, Госдуме, то нас будет опыт реальной политической борьбы. А сторонников Навального чаще всего не регистрируют. В Томске наши посмотрят на бюджет города — кто подрядчики у власти, что они делают? У нас же много выдуманного — мы воображаем. Но если ты участвуешь, пишешь запросы в прокуратуру, то начинаешь что-то понимать. Ты получаешь опыт, а когда наступит момент «белорусизации» ли, оттепель ли — момент изменений, — ты поймешь, что надо менять. Чиновники могут быть большими оппозиционерами, чем мы с вами: они знают, как все устроено и что надо делать. Такие люди должны быть в системе, а не только Незнайки на Луне, романтики, которые не понимают, как что устроено. Как мэр Москвы Гавриил Попов. В Мосгордуме я не вижу, что избранные оппозиционеры что-то делают, а вот команда [Ильи] Яшина в муниципалитете делает хорошее для района.

— Но, кстати, протестное голосование, «Умное голосование» в Мосгордуму привело в депутатские кресла таких же новичков в политике. Среди них есть искренние люди, как, например, депутат от КПРФ Евгений Ступин, так что новый человек — это не сразу плохо. Но часть новичков, которые были до того ноунеймами, сразу стали поддерживать власть. У вас тоже много таких неизвестных до того в политике кандидатов. Что будет с ними, если они потянутся в сторону поддержки администрации? Какая-то партийная вертикаль должна быть?

— Надо верить в людей, я не любитель вертикали. Ко мне в компанию часто приходят менеджеры, которые, например, предлагают: «Давайте введем на производстве штрафы». Давайте людям доверять! У нас люди честные — если разочаруемся, значит, не повторим потом такую ошибку. У нас одна вертикаль есть, наслаждайтесь ею. От нас не надо требовать ее, достали ею уже. Загуляют? Да пусть загуляют, жизнь их отсеет.

Andrei Pertsev talked