"The people will not forgive." Opposition Lukashenko security forces are united

Andrei Ostapovich, a former senior investigator of the Belarusian Investigative Committee, refused to participate in the persecution of protesters, creates the BY_POL association abroad. Its goal is to collect evidence on committed security officials and helping those from colleagues who decide to go over to the side of the people.

Andrei Ostapovich quit from the Investigative Committee of the Republic of Belarus in August, shortly after the start of protests following the results of the presidential election. In his report, he wrote that he refuses to “participate in the concealment of crimes” and follow “criminal orders”, and “the only provocateurs of violence”, which he himself saw at rallies, are “these are employees of riot police and other departments.” Having submitted a report, Ostapovich left Minsk to Russia, and during the registration of a visa to Latvia he was detained in Pskov. After the noise in the media, the Russian special services did not dare to give it to the Belarusian colleagues, Ostapovich was simply taken beyond Russia and a few days later ended up in Poland . Soon he submitted documents to get refugee status.

On November 2, Andrei Ostapovich published a photo with Svetlana Tikhanovskaya on his Instagram. The former investigator announced the creation of a public association by BY_POL. The employees of the law enforcement agencies of Belarus, who also refused to comply with orders and went over to the side of the people. The names of Ostapovich are not fundamentally called because of security considerations, although some reveal themselves in social networks.

BY_POL plans to collect evidence of crimes that the current security officials committed in relation to the peacefully protesting citizens of Belarus, and to help their colleagues resigned. The goal for the future is to prepare the reform of law enforcement agencies of the republic, Andrei Ostapovich said to the correspondent of the North Real.

"As it was before, it will definitely not be left"

- One of the main tasks of By_pol collection is evidence of the crimes of the security forces. Are you collecting for the future Hague?

Anyone who wants to become president will promote criminal liability for those who beat, killed, raped people

- You correctly said about the Hague, especially if this mode will linger. We collect evidence in the form in which they can even be used by the current legislation in court. And also, in the new honest elections that Svetlana Tikhanovskaya promises, what do you think will the political program be built on the candidates? Anyone who wants to become president will promote criminal liability for those who beat, killed, raped people and supported the retention of this illegal power in all ways. And specialized structures will be created for such investigations. Our materials may be useful to them.

I see one more important task - to recognize in the international arena by criminal organizations structures such as riot police and GUBOP (the Main Directorate for the Combating of Organized Crime of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Belarus. - SR) and prohibit employees with entry into those places where, say, they loved to rest. I hope that then Russia will join this process, refuse Lukashenko and will cooperate in Belarus with the new government. And then those security forces will have nowhere to run. While Lukashenko is held in power, there will be pressure on these structures so that they do not feel so free that they understand that as it was before, will definitely not remain. Our people will not forgive what happened.

- Do you already have statistics on the crimes of the Belarusian security forces?

There are several cases of rape, I can’t name the quantity yet, there are beaten

-Through the "Center of the Belarusian Solidarity", 450 people have already passed, the total number of those who left for Poland while we could not establish because of all these events. Specific cases received, were able to establish a person involved in the employees, prescribed the corpus delicti, drew up documents for themselves, and went to the next. Found a video, identified the employee in their own ways. The most common alleged compositions of crimes - instructed a weapon on a peacefully protester, threw grenades. There are several cases of rape, I can’t name the amount yet, there are beaten. Open sources have murder data.

- You said about "identifying an employee in his own ways." Do you support the deanonymization of Belarusian security forces, including using computer programs?

Information about the deanonymization program was a stuffing that they made to scare people

- In the form in which it occurs, is not. Therefore, old data are being taken for such bases, it happens that the employees indicated there quit, left the system, left for other countries or began to do other things. And computer programs? Do you believe this? People from those photos were recognized by their acquaintances, gave links to social networks, then all this was processed as videos. Real programs of this kind are very, very expensive. To connect one access requires 150 thousand dollars. It seems to me that this information about the deanonymization program was a stuffing that they made to scare people who, even being in the system of law enforcement agencies, are not very versed in how it works. In reality, if she worked, they would have already opened and show absolutely all employees.

- Who finances BY_POL?

- There is no funding, the center of Belarusian solidarity provided us with a room, bought equipment because my computer remained in Russia, and phones in the forests of Belarus, where I was hiding. The center was formed on the donations of ordinary people, our Belarusian ITSHNOVs from all over the world sent donations.

- And the former security forces who came to BY_POL, and yourself - do you pay salaries?

We cannot work for six months, but we have found a way to be useful to our country

- I, like part of my employees, are in the status of refugees, we have no right to work for the next six months. We get a manual - 750 zlotys per month (15,264 rubles. - SR) . We cannot work for six months, but we have found a way to be useful to our country. Svetlana Tikhanovskaya found out about us and wanted to meet. We talked, she realized how important what we do, and the rest of the protest movements began to cooperate with us slowly.

-Many learned about the lawlessness of the Belarusian security forces thanks to the Nexta telegram channel. Do you cooperate with them?

- In some ways, there is cooperation, although we personally did not communicate. I know that the information of our headquarters is used by this media.

Protection and reform

- The name "trade union for the Belarusian security forces" sounds unexpected. Are you going to protect the Belarusian riot police? Are you not people from riot police?

The security forces who performed on the side of the people are already in places of imprisonment in terrible conditions, even worse than that of civilian people

- Do you remember my story how I ran through the forests of Eurasia from my own colleagues? The employee is part of the system. It seems that he has legal grounds to make certain decisions, but in fact - no: the system will quickly crush it, colleagues will come who are interested in working differently, bosses, leadership, and they will all put pressure, pursue and so on. Now there is information that the security forces who have performed on the side of the people are already in places of imprisonment in terrible conditions, even worse than those of civilian people. KGB, internal security service - all these systems will immediately knock on your door, detain, illegally conduct all searches and falsify the matter, because you have specific knowledge and information that can harm the current government. They will deal with you much faster than the others. Even before the start of all events, the employee was unprotected in so many areas, even in terms of social security. On paper, all this is spelled out, but nothing is realized. We want to change this situation.

- Have you heard about the Russian Ombudsman of the Police? He had similar plans, and now - arrest and several criminal cases.

-I think yes, in some directions we are trying to do the same as he. Yuri Zakharenko tried to go like that, but there were not the technologies, he could not do it abroad, and the man quickly disappeared. We hope we have a different way.

- What reforms of law enforcement agencies of Belarus should be carried out first?

- Everyone shouts to us: "Why are there so many security forces in the country?" It is necessary to start with the abolition of officers for employees who are responsible for domestic support. There should not be a length of service at the age of 20, because there is no danger there, this is not an officer of the submarine or an officer of the police who can be killed. The same personnel officer in a civilian should work up to 60.

Second - we must get rid of duplication of systems. We have a prosecutor’s office - the supervisory authority, but the Investigative Committee has the so -called CPC - the management of procedural control, which duplicates the supervision inside the system. Other units of law enforcement agencies also have similar department services. Why is this duplication and smearing forces?

It is worth considering the issue of decriminalization of some articles of the Criminal Code. Where I worked, about 40% of the directed cases were about preventive supervision of people who were freed from places of imprisonment. He did not come home in time, got drunk - he committed an administrative offense. After three violations, a criminal case is re -triumphed. The investigation is engaged in an investigator for particularly important matters, the load increases, there is no one to investigate real cases. Or with thefts that fall under our article 205, part 1. There, the cost of investigation is not comparable with a slight damage caused.

Personal choice and lustration

- And what about those who today agreed to comply with criminal orders and act in the interests of Lukashenko? Will there be chandeliers?

- We have article 20 of the Criminal Code. If the participant in the criminal gang was not an organizer and coordinator, did not commit serious and especially serious crimes, began to cooperate with the investigation, then he is exempted from criminal liability. If a person was in this, but he personally did not kill anyone, did not cripple, then he is released from punishment. And then what are the legal grounds to fire him from the organs and not let him work there? At the ethical level-yes, there is, you still tarnished your shoulder straps. But we come from the point of view of compliance with the rule of law. The rallies in Belarus grew due to the fact that our power began to violate all kinds of laws against our citizens, but we do not want to become like the current government.

Everyone makes their own when he begins to shoot, rape and kill

But if an employee has committed serious crimes, he will not be able to remain non -it, receive a pension, his experience will not go anywhere. Everyone makes their own when he begins to shoot, rape and kill.

- And where is the line between the execution of the order and the civil consciousness?

- Everyone has its own. My story is not even about someone to beat, I just had to encounter the fact that, to some extent, I was forced to turn a blind eye to violating the law or even somehow participate in it, involuntarily allowing some employees to destroy evidence of their criminal activity or to falsify some documents against someone.

- If the captains had to turn a blind eye to crimes, then what happens at the level of the generals?

- Many military units were not involved. In the bulk, those who are close to the president are lured. Lukashenko personally appoints each colonel and above. Most often, these are the people closest to him, so they are all their souls for him, and there will not work with them.

- If you dismiss all of them, then where to get new personnel?

- Do you think he appoints the best specialists or those who can trust? It is not the fact that his people are the highest quality and smart. We have been working for many of their lives, but they are not included in trust, dissenters, for example, are sitting in some positions and cannot move. And these are all the chairmen, ministers - yes, shallow people, but they are recruited on the basis of what this person can do for Lukashenko.

- How do you estimate the current level of protest in Belarus?

- While people will fight, the authorities have no chance. This is the agony of the current government. She makes constant mistakes, begins to change one boss to another, he understands that he can also work out for two months and surrendered, they will be allowed, they will be guilty of him. People do not give up, they do not want the power of Lukashenko and his criminal group. No one will forget what happened.