Alexander Usatov was a priest for 15 years, but then he lost faith in God and left the Russian Orthodox Church. And after that he moved to the Netherlands-and made a camming out

We talked with him

Alexander Usatov studied the Bible for 30 years and for 15 years served in the Russian Orthodox Church as a priest. Gradually, he lost faith in God, and in March 2020 he left the Russian Orthodox Church . After that, Usatov moved to the Netherlands and received refugee status. In March of 2021, he made a camming out . The special corner of the "Medusa" Alexander Sivtsova spoke with the former priest - about himself and what is happening in the Russian Orthodox Church.

- You have served in the church for 15 years. Throughout these years, everything suited you?

- No, it did not suit. In the church, I was in the myth. I imagined the young man that all the sinful should be overcome, and in the end you will reach holiness and eternal life. I read the Bible and decided that all this [homosexuality] is unacceptable, it is impossible to think about it.

- When did you understand that you are homosexual?

- This is called "wake up." The school had an interest in the topic, and at 22 [years] I realized that this is not curiosity, but mine. Then I admitted to myself. This is a personal story, I would not want to discuss the details, but the acceptance of myself came at 22 years old. For many years I read the Bible for many years, I knew church texts, taboos, the attitude of the church and society to this topic.

- What else did you do then?

- graduated from a secular university and defended his diploma.

- Who did you study for?

-I graduated from the South Russian State Polytechnic University. He worked at the factory where the orientation systems were made by spacecraft and missiles.

Later he received a theological education at the Orthodox St. Tikhonovsky Humanitarian University as a teacher of theology. He passed two candidate exams as a graduate student of the Russian Christian Humanitarian Academy and general church graduate school and doctoral studies of the Russian Orthodox Church.

- And how did you get to the church?

- He came to the temple in 1992, already having the experience of reading the Bible. Soon I became a zealous parishioner.

“You are homosexual and understood this to yourself from youth.” You knew the official attitude of the church to this topic. Why did you decide to go to serve?

- I fought with [my] homosexuality. The church offers healing and salvation. They say that everyone has their own passions. Some want to drink, others - to steal, others - hooligan, the fifths - to flood. Church people know that homosexuality is only one of many vices excommunicate from salvation. If all these people are expelled [from the church], who will remain? On the other hand, the church exists to heal sins.

This itself [homosexuality] is not a problem. Passion needs to be overcome, “heal” - in church jargon. Therefore, gays remain in the [church] system.

- That is, you went to the Russian Orthodox Church, hoping that your orientation will change?

- Yes. In fact, inside the church there is only an attitude towards actions, and not to orientation. Homosexuality as a term is a remake, there are no similar words in canons and the Bible .

It seemed to me that my life could straighten up: everything would be different, the church will help me in this, because God himself promised. This is a manifestation of faith: when you believe in God, you act how he tells. If he commands to fight with himself, we will do it. A man wants to post meat - it is not necessary, because the church says "do not." And I had such a “post”: a struggle [with homosexuality].

People who shout “What have you not left right away?” Do not understand the psychology of believers. Believers expect help from God to overcome passions.

- How did you decide this dilemma for yourself for 15 years in the church? You are homosexual and serve in a church where there are people with the same orientation. At the same time, officially the Russian Orthodox Church does not at all approve of such a relationship.

- One saint says: "The Church is a collection of repenting sinners." Therefore, I thought: "Yes, in the church there are people who have a tendency to booze, abuse, smoking, but they must fight this." On the other hand, to maintain a beautiful facade and PR ROC, it must be argued that such a problem does not exist.

As an expression: "There is no sex in the USSR." This is a lie. This is how the naked king does: he goes to people and imagines as if he is beautifully dressed, and he himself is naked.

“So how did you put up with this?”

- I realized that even in church rules the attitude to the relationship between men is ambivalent. Some extreme forms are prohibited, and everything else is perceived, in my opinion, as a norm or pampering. For example, in the church charter it is said about the Easter custom: “Both the churchwomen and the elders and rector come into the mouth.” But all this time I dealt with the fact that I am gay.

- What are you talking about, comparing the church and the naked king?

- In order to show our significance for the state, we [the Russian Orthodox Church] will engage in a narrow topic [struggle against homosexual minorities], which must rally the nation, distract it from economic and social problems. We will find enemies according to the old tradition - declare a witch hunt.

I believe that the church is looking for sodomites and enemies of the king, serves the interests of the ruling circles; She distracts the people. The energy of popular anger directs to the so -called "enemies of the people." At the same time, the church positions itself as the bride of Christ. But in fact - the "naked king."

I saw this before, it confused me. This seemed in the inevitable costs of the fall.

- Why is the church looking for the "enemies of the people"?

- When there is no clear enemy, it bothers people. Remember what anxiety was when the pandemic came. Then they came up with the enemy - that almost aliens or Masons chip people. If the enemy appeared in the field of view, it is easier at once.

But real work in the moral field does not happen, because the church is not interested in this. For her, in my opinion, the most important thing is power, money, sex. But in secret. And the rigid vertical of power from the patriarch to the rural church must be covered with words about love and the holy hierarchy.

-In your appeal, where you made a camming out, you mention the "church gay lobby." You say: "Everyone knows about the existence of a gay lobby and the opportunity to make a light career, having passed through the bishop's bed." What is a gay lobby?

- In my opinion, this is, first of all, influential gays in the [church] system, which are united not only by church politicians and finances, but also by general sexual interests; They support each other and cover in case of scandals. These are bishops, career monks , privileged clergy. They do not exist in the church in isolation. In my opinion, Patriarch and other bishops know about them, they are used in their interests. I think that in a gay-lobby, one way or another, almost the entire leading top of the Russian Orthodox Church is involved. The rest cover this, some bishops cohabit with women.

Many influential gays want to have a special environment of communication, where they can share love affairs, boast of boys, behave relaxed. Along the way, the environment solves career problems, provides refuge in case of problems-for example, one gay-epic can accept another at home, give him a calm refuge for the duration of the scandal [if they find out about his orientation publicly].

- Among the clergy are there proposals to make sexual contact?

- Yes.

- For what?

- Just because an influential person wants this. The sentence of sex is a loyalty test and at the same time manifestation of trust.

Before that, they look at the “candidates”: they should be with certain parameters. Either slim and beautiful, or supple and ready for everything, or smart and able to serve, help the Lord in his daily worries. If all these qualities are united in one person, he will become the closest companion of the Lord and will travel after him from the diocese to the diocese, and over time he will become a bishop.

The usual picture for most dioceses: the rapid careers of the bishop’s favorites against the background of the main mass of priests who have been waiting for increased and awards for decades.

- Do you definitely have sex with influential hierarchs in order to grow career?

- Not necessarily. People can simply delight the eye of the bishop: he is pleased to be surrounded by beautiful people. Even better, if they are talented at the same time, they know how to sing well, write books, give sponsors. But often there is enough appearance and ability to keep your mouth your teeth. Not all of them will be offered sex, but everyone, one way or another, takes into account such an opportunity. The main thing is that the bishop trusts these people with his intimate secrets.

- Have you been offered to make such contact?

- From the bishop, thank God, no. The atheist said: "Thank God."

Not every person can get such a ticket upstairs. To do this, he must have special qualities. Apparently, I do not possess them - therefore, they did not offer them.

“ Do you think Patriarch Kirill enters the gay lobby or at least knows about him?”

- I think he is his ideological inspirer and leader. Everyone is dancing under his tune. I think that Cyril’s system is covered by bishops-geese. In addition to vivid cases with nudity in the photo.

- How did you publicly hide your homosexuality?

- This is not written on the face. I lived like an ordinary person. I never visited gay clubs. Almost all gays of Russia live secretly.

-Have you ever publicly expressed a general church point of view? Conditionally, gays are evil?

- Not “gays are evil”, but then I thought that homosexuality is a consequence of the original sin and a person’s free choice. And he called this a distortion of human nature, which must be overcome with God's help.

-In 2012, you admitted to the Rostov Metropolitan Mercury that you are gay ( Usatov served in Rostov-on-Don-approx. Medusa ). For what?

- It is very difficult to hide. And at that moment I was ready to leave the church - I came to a standstill. [Because] By that time, I began to turn into gay from a fighter with my own homosexuality. But the metropolitan supported me, and I remained to serve further.

- How did Metropolitan support you then?

- There is repentance in the church: repent and do not do it anymore. He supported, said: "Serving further, do not leave the church."

- He gave you a decree, how to behave?

-Yes. He knocked on the table and said: "If you light up somewhere, someone will find out [that you are gay], I will destroy you."

-Still, why did you stay in the church, since you felt that situation deadly?

- Metropolitan can inspire people.

- What is Mercury a person?

- When we discussed the problems of homosexual stay in the church, he gave me advice: "Do not sleep with the person you work with, and do not work with the one with whom you are sleeping."

He directly said that he was not attached to people and priests. For him, they are living functions and workers. People feel this and call the Metropolitan "lady."

- What then did you expect from ministry in such a church?

- If you are treated in the hospital, there should be results. This is an important image for me. And today I say that in a hospital called the Russian Orthodox Church, treatment is proposed, money is taken for this, but there is no result.

- There were many gays in your parish?

- I cannot say this, because then I will let real people under the monastery.

- And if we talk about the Russian Orthodox Church as a whole? Gays make up more or less than half of the priests?

- Millions of parishioners, 35 thousand priests and more than 380 bishops are now referring to the Russian Orthodox Church. The number of homosexuals in each group will be different. In general, in any community there are about 3%of them. There are more of them among the clergy, because this environment - the altar, the monastery - can attract them. Many gays are creative and sensitive natures. The beauty of worship, focusing on good relations in the men's team - all this can attract homosexuals.

In my opinion, the majority among their bishop [gays], because the career of the bishop is a monastic career. People of homosexual orientation more often go to monks, because the monks do not marry and this is considered the norm. In other communities, celibacy may seem reprehensible. It is career monks that most often become the favorites of gay-episivals-and later they themselves become bishops.

-You wrote that when you served in the church, you nevertheless discussed the LGBT Tum in their circle. Is this a church circle?

- It was a church circle close to me. People who understand theology and canons. We discussed what we wrote about this in the days of Byzantium, in Paul's Epistles, the meaning of the terms.

In the Russian Orthodox Church, it is not customary to talk about sexuality at the scientific level. And outside the temple, priests live as they want, but consider themselves at the same time almost saints. This forms a certain cognitive dissonance in church people. I discussed this with those interested in people, and now I am also ready to discuss, but only in a scientific manner.

-Have you had conflicts with other gyama priests?

-There was a conflict with one person who thought that I was preventing him from communicating with some guys. This is sometimes called jealousy, but it had no reason. The far -fetched problem that provoked a scandal.

-Are you talking about some priest from Rostov-on-Don [where did you serve]?

- Yes, very significant.

- What is his name?

- I can’t say a name, but I’m sure that all people involved in the Rostov diocese understand who I mean. There is no other other. He has long been in this diocese. He heads the diocesan department. The person is significant, and to remove him for the reputation of the Church would be a terrible damage. Although the process of self -cleaning from cruel, unprincipled, vengeful and hypocritical people for the church would be useful.

- Tell us what happened.

- It was at the beginning of the fall of 2019. It seemed to the clergyman that I was crossing his path. There was a sluggish conflict, which by 2020 began to increase. I tried to voice the idea of ​​freedom of speech and freedom of expression of human rights. Gay-lobby did not like it, because this can destroy the foundations of the whole organization. And for the franchise [that is, the Russian Orthodox Church] this is unacceptable.

“Why did you quarrel in addition to jealousy on his part?”

- He directly said that at the sermons and in church meetings, gays needed to be harshly scolding - and it was not enough for us to support them. I voiced my opinion to him that one should not brand homosexuality. This [his attitude to homosexuality] outraged me, because the most famous gay of the Rostov diocese told me this. It turns out that an influential archpriest with money can allow himself anything sexually, and the personal lives and needs of ordinary people must smash and denounce. This is hypocrisy. After he heard that I was against this, everything became worse.

“Have you been threatened?”

- Yes, an unknown person in civilian clothes approached me. He said that a denunciation of the high state department was directed at me. What is with him [denunciation] in the end, I do not know - since I left Russia.

- Such a method of solving problems when the authorities are attracted, how common is in the Russian Orthodox Church?

- I know many examples. Right now there is a stormy process around Sergius. Power structures took up it only when he ceased to be beneficial for the Russian Orthodox Church.

- Is there any confirmation that the Rostov priest is involved in your situation? Or are these guesses?

- What we corresponded with Rostov Archpriest was going on as quotes from the mouth of a person in civilian clothes. They also told me that the denunciation comes from the archpriest from the near circle of Mercury. I had no conflicts with other archpriests.

- You mentioned that you were faced with slander addressed. What are you talking about?

-The fact is that many, having read the word “camming out”, did not read further. And they began to think out that I was kicked out of the Russian Orthodox Church for homosexuality. This is wrong.

I decided to leave the Russian Orthodox Church on March 21, 2020 in the Altar of the Rostov Cathedral. Due to unbelief, as well as threats for free thought and conversations with people about human rights - including sexuality.

- You submitted an application for deprivation of the dignity and indicated the reason that you became an unbeliever. How did you get fired in the end?

- At the end of the conversation with the Metropolitan on March 24, 2020, he realized that I was not going to take a statement about the deprivation of the dignity due to unbelief. He anger and kicked me out with the words "Fuck!" An unbelieving priest is nonsense in Russia.

After that, his secretary issued a decree on the prohibition in the ministry, since I violated the oath given in the ordination of the priest. After all, I left the ministry, I did not contain the teachings of faith, I violated the will of the archpastor, I do not believe in the Lord God. And also from himself he added [that I am leaving] “due to illness”-indicating schizophrenia or astheno-depressive condition.

Immediately, the metropolitan ordered me to dismiss me from the theological seminary, although according to the law it has nothing to do with this process. I was asked to quit of my own free will. I refused and sent a complaint to the labor inspectorate. I was refused. After that, I sent a complaint to the regional prosecutor's office, but I was only advised to look for protection in court. As a result, the rector [seminary] fired the next day with his order.

- You also mentioned that after leaving the Russian Orthodox Church, some former colleagues talked about your “secret adventures”: there were supposedly cases of harassment on your part. And the press secretary of Mercury publicly called you “Rostov Harvey Weinstein” without presenting any evidence. What are we talking about?

- These are inventions to extremely discredit me and take attention from the internal problems of the Russian Orthodox Church. For me, this slander did not become a surprise: they hinted that they would spread this if I do not shut up.

- You were also accused of supporting Alexei Navalny. Do you support him?

- It was an absurd accusation contained in the denunciation. Я не лезу в политику и не очень в ней разбираюсь. У меня другие цели и средства их достижения: я занимаюсь популяризацией научных знаний.

— А священники вообще могут поддерживать Навального?

— В РПЦ так не принято.

- Actually?

— Священники многое понимают. Они общаются с разного рода людьми. Но открыто ничего не могут заявить

— Вы переехали в Нидерланды. Давно задумались о переезде в Европу?

— Мысли были давно. Но путей переехать не было, об этом нельзя было и думать. Это как полететь на Марс.

Когда возникла ситуация с угрозами, я обсудил ее с парой человек. Мне сказали: «Ты чего сидишь и ждешь, что тебя бросят в тюрьму по надуманным причинам? Или сломают ноги, или отправят в больницу». Я реально боялся этого. И в мае-июне 2020 года решил думать о поиске убежища. Мне подсказали, что мой случай с угрозами подходит для переезда. Я решился уехать. Хотя никаких гарантий не было.

— Кто вам посоветовал переехать?

— Через знакомых я узнал о координатах людей, которые занимаются делами беженцев в Германии и Нидерландах.

— Сначала вы получили статус беженца. На каких правах вы сейчас в Нидерландах?

— Это вид на жительство.

— Как вы его получили?

— После предоставления статуса беженца чиновники решают, на какой срок человек получит вид на жительство в стране ЕС. У меня на пять лет.

— Собираетесь остаться здесь?

- Certainly! Это прекрасная страна, мне все нравится, у меня замечательные друзья, подруги, соседи, перспективы с работой и учебой.

— Какие перспективы?

— Я сейчас не могу озвучивать, но параллельно с обучением я могу заниматься волонтерством, помогать больным людям и заниматься физическим трудом.

— Кем вы хотите работать?

— Об этом рано думать. Для начала нужно выучить язык.

- What are you doing now?

— Живу в своем доме, который предоставлен как социальное жилье. Начал серьезно изучать голландский язык. Плюс помощь ближним, соседям, живое общение, поездки на велосипеде. Пособие платят мне достаточное, а когда буду работать, доходы окажутся еще больше — думаю, мне хватит.

— По России скучаете?

— По каким-то красивым местам — да. А главное — по близким мне людям.

Сейчас я будто в раю среди цветов, велосипедов, каналов. In silence. Отдыхаю, но скучаю.

— У кого-то может сложиться впечатление, что скандал вам был выгоден, чтобы было основание переехать в Европу.

— Это глупость, иначе огромное количество людей уехало бы в Европу. Проверка перед принятием решения о предоставлении убежища — тяжелое психологическое испытание. За вами девять часов наблюдают специалисты [миграционной службы] — они поймут по жестам, мимике, глазам, если вы лжете. Поток вопросов на одну и ту же тему так же легко выявляет заготовку и обман.

Кто-то фантазирует, будто мой каминг-аут совершен для отработки западных грантов, но это не так. Я не получаю гранты, только пособие. Я — полноценный резидент Нидерландов.

— Почему вы решили сделать каминг-аут только несколько дней назад? Why not earlier?

— Пришлось понервничать, ожидая решения [о статусе резидента], а также пожить в лагере для беженцев. Теперь созрел.

У меня были сомнения, стоит ли это вообще делать. Сейчас на меня вылился ушат грязи от людей, которые не могут увидеть в геях живых людей. Гей-священник для них — это лицемер, приспособленец, карьерист.

Я ожидал этого, но решил открыться, чтобы помочь другим людям, которые продолжают ломать себя в церкви. Я совершил каминг-аут ради тех, кто «сидит в шкафу» и думает, как стереть свою личность, чтобы их не наказал Бог. Пугалки «гневом Господа» бесчеловечны, называть их небесным откровением нельзя. Думаю, моя история может послужить для них уроком и побудит задуматься. И я еще больше убедился в этом: многие пишут мне письма поддержки и делятся своим церковным опытом, который во многом схож с моим.

— Связывался ли кто-то из коллег после каминг-аута?

— Да, мне писали бывшие коллеги — все со словами поддержки. В целом, я чувствую, скорее, симпатию среди ростовского духовенства. Но, конечно, об этом не говорят публично.

— Вы перестали верить в Бога, когда еще были священником. Во что вы верите сейчас?

— Я — материалист, в этической сфере — светский гуманист. В богов не верю: ни в Зевса, ни в Кришну, ни в Троицу.

— Каково это — полностью изменить свой взгляд на мир?

— Это моя человеческая эволюция как личности. Кто-то спрашивает, почему раньше это не случилось? How do I know?

В какой-то момент я закончил школу, университет, читал книги, общался с людьми. Потом пришел к этому выводу [что я атеист]. Некоторые ни в 42, ни в 50, ни в 60 лет к нему не приходят. They are all satisfied. Не хочу их тревожить.

— В итоге вы доэволюционировали до момента, когда стали неверующим. У вас во время этого пути не было чувства, что свернули куда-то не туда? Например, когда читали не библейскую литературу, а книги о науке.

— Знаете, как у некоторых людей заканчивается любовь к человеку, у меня также закончилась любовь к церкви. Я стал воспринимать ее как минное поле — куда не наступи, везде будет провал, взрыв, удар. В любой сфере — в нравственной, исторической, научной, философской.

В семинарии я был преподавателем «основного богословия». Это грань между религией и научной сферой, философской, психологической, социальной. Мне приходилось много думать и в каком-то смысле даже защищать позиции церкви. Я видел, насколько они слабы; видел ложь, передергивание, нарушение логики.

— О какой лжи и нарушении логики вы говорите?

— Со школы я листал книжки креационистов , где «доказывалась» историчность Великого Потопа и невозможность развития форм жизни эволюционным путем. В других изданиях исход двух-трех миллионов евреев из Египта в Ханаан представлялся историческим событием. Благодатный огонь на полном серьезе представлялся как аргумент против инославных [других конфессий] христиан .

Подобное накапливалось годами, пока я не признался себе: все, что происходит в церкви — «человеческое, слишком человеческое». И приплетать «гипотезу Бога» нет необходимости. В том, как работает церковь и распространяются «религиозные мемы», я вижу влияние человеческой психологии, людских ошибок и особенностей работы мозга. Я перестал верить в церковь. Церковная методика спасения не только не работает, но даже вредит.

Сейчас, чтобы понять человека, мне больше интересны нейрофизиологи и историки, а не святые отцы.

Я подорвался на богословских минах. Я долго подрывался, мне ведь 42 года. Может быть, кто-то остановится раньше, прочитав меня? Пять раз подумает, прежде чем идти в церковь и ломать свою жизнь по средневековым шаблонам, думая, что тут — спасение и благодать.

— Нет сейчас сожалений, что 15 лет занимались не тем?

— Конечно, в моей жизни было много ошибок, но я это принимаю. Это моя история, все это меня сформировало как человека. Сейчас я принимаю свою историю со всеми плюсами и минусами. А вот в условиях церковной жизни принимать себя не получалось. Был когнитивный диссонанс.

Talked Alexander Sivtsova