“Mmm, guarantees? No, they will not be "

The creator of Faberlic and the New People party Alexey Nechaev bought Sports.ru. What will happen to the publication now? Interview Dmitry Navoshi - one of its founders

Sports.ru is one of the few truly independent publications in Russia. On the site there are regularly appeared materials that systematically analyze the problems of Russian sports, and an interview in which famous athletes openly criticize Vladimir Putin. And the former editor -in -chief of the publication Yuri Dud is probably the most popular journalist in the country. In the context of a rapidly reduced market for an independent press, the significance of Sports.ru has long gone beyond the niches of sports media. At the end of February, the owner was replaced by the publication: the founder of Faberlic and the Prochrevsky political party “New People” by Alexei Nechaev purchased 100% of the shares . Some readers immediately suggested that this is the end of Sports.ru as an independent media. About whether this is so, Medusa talked with Dmitry Navosh - one of the founders of the publication.

- When did negotiations on the sale of Sports.ru?

-About two years ago, in the spring of 2019. The people who control the investment fund Alexei Nechaev wrote. First, frankly, [we] reacted to the request with skepticism - as always, when the investor does not have a media background, since we have a sphere with its own characteristics. Then we met, talked a lot, realized what's what. We did not agree right away, but in the end they nevertheless agreed.

- And what happened to what?

- We - both the shareholders and our whole team - have always looked at the media as a business. Yes, media is a lot more. This, in the end, is the only type of business that is mentioned in the constitutions of different countries - in terms of freedom of speech and the media. But it is economic viability, like nothing else, that contributes to this freedom. When you do not look back at grants or subsidies - and Sports.ru never received them. When you do not beg money. When you can choose and say “no” to the request of a particular advertiser.

And then Sports.ru ultimately is well constructed as a business. But it is difficult to adapt to something else, to solve with its help some other problems. For example, political.

But not only. For example, my Sports.ru partner German Tkachenko is a large football agent. However, no matter what they say there, he did not try to solve any such problems with the help of our site. Yes, and it would be difficult to do this with such a Sports.ru device: the company is designed differently.

So, in the negotiations [with Nechaev] it was important for us to make sure that it was about business.

- One thing - football agent German Tkachenko, who, in many ways, as far as I can judge, shares your liberal views; Another thing is not only a businessman, but also politician Alexei Nechaev.

- I'm afraid this is an exclusively question of your personal optics. Some of our sports - the audience had enough guesses to why [on the pages of Sports.ru] praised or criticized certain clubs or players. But all doubts, suspicions were not confirmed in practice. Journalists or bloggers Sports.ru could like someone in their assessments, they could not like it, but these were exclusively their own estimates and views, not dictated by anyone.

- You asked Nechaev, why did he need this project?

- Certainly. About that and I'm talking about. It was important for us to make sure that at Sports.ru the buyer looks like a business. Only in this capacity is he good.

- What specifically answered Nechaev when you asked him, why did he need this project?

-Well, I will not transmit some of his words. And I conveyed the essence of the answer.

- Who else did you negotiate with?

- At different times, they talked with different investors. Or did not talk if, roughly speaking, state or quasi -state media holdings - that is, almost all available. You probably know everyone who invests in Russia in the media - and, I suspect, you do not like none of them at all.

After [Sports.ru], the interest in 2011 or 2012 was regular, and the farther [we] advanced with one top Western investor. But then the war with Ukraine intervened in plans, and then in Russia foreigners were completely banned from owning the media. Even, in general, I, as a Belarusian, turned out to be in the role of a co-owner and manager of the media outlawed.

- And what kind of Western investor?

- The largest European sports holding [Perform Group], followed by the main football edition of the world of Goal.com, “Sports Netflix” called Dazn and many other huge sports projects around the world.

- The fact that Nechaev’s political statements diverge strongly, for example, with what you are writing on Facebook , you have not embarrassed?

- I have political views with Herman Tkachenko do not coincide. And the Sports.ru team was formed, frankly, without looking back at political beliefs.

In general, this is a very bold and strange assumption that I or someone else from the owners read the editors of political information. Many represent, for example, [the former chief editor of Sports.ru Yuri] Dudia-and understand the doubtfulness of the idea to dictate something to him. Most of the editorial staff of today Sports.ru worked with Dudem for many years and rely on identical journalistic standards.

- According to Medusa, the Nechaev party “New People” is not only pro -Kremlinskaya, but also is responsible for a specific niche: youth from 18 to 30 years old. [Already in 2021] elections to the State Duma are coming. Sports.ru with its audience fits perfectly.

-Well, it is difficult for me to answer the average sofa political scientist with something different from what was said above. Exceptable that Sports.ru will not fit as a political instrument.

- Why not fit? Political technology is used in Russia differently-sometimes in a completely unexpected way. I would like to hear a convincing answer.

- You have a very clear and unambiguous picture of the world. I do not see that it was real to influence her with some arguments. Let these be not just words, let it be deeds. Follow business, for real work Sports.ru.

- Nevertheless, there are already very few media projects in Russia, where the editors could work without censorship. Have you talked with Nechaev on censorship?

- Yes. Censorship is a harmful thing not only in itself, but also very badly affecting business in the media sphere. Moreover, that does not allow the censorship of the long -term effect, only a very short and very high price. A large array of experience has already been accumulated, the results are too obvious. Russian television is wretched and unprofitable, and Utuubers are popular and earn good. Is the long -term goal achieved by censorship? In my opinion, not particularly. Censoring, you do not obtain control over the image of the thoughts of media consumers. You lose consumers.

Therefore, I am constantly talking about economic success as a factor in the protection of media standards. It will seem that I Taldych is the same. But you ask about the same thing, just in different words.

- You spoke with Nechaev, what would he do if they call him with a request to remove the material?

-Well, something like that. Just Herman Tkachenko [as the main owner] shared his experience: not to do anything. Herman did not operate either Sports.ru, or even more so the editors. The investor’s interlocutors are a management that tells once a quarter what is from the plan, and what is not and what will happen next to the company. But in general, as I understand it, ultimately German Tkachenko stopped calling with such stupid things. They called to anyone - the editors - if they wanted to present their point of view as opposed to the presented.

- What are the guarantees that tomorrow with Sports.ru will not happen what happened to some others in Russia?

- Oh. If in modern Russia it was possible to guarantee at least something. There are no guarantees, no matter who is recorded there in the Unified State Register of Legal Entities in the line "owner".

I repeatedly said and wrote that a lot in the work of the same Roskomnadzor is quite a censorship with which you are forced to be considered a power, a threat of blocking. Or that the war of Match TV and Gazprom-Media with Sports.ru at one time is also an attempt to censorship, dumb and impudent. Although there is also an attempt to solve their economic problems at the same time: then it seemed to them that if you block Sports.ru, then [they] would bring the “Match TV” to payback.

And in Belarus, our "tribune" in August 2020 was simply taken and blocked by one day without trial and investigation, without the slightest explanation.

Mmm, guarantees? No, I don’t think that in our area it is generally realistic to strive for guarantees, they will not be. Do what you should, and whatever happens. You stubbornly, in spite of everything, are constructing media as a business that at some point ceases to consume money and begins to bring it. I think this is the maximum degree of protection that is now possible.

- After the owner’s change, do you imagine an interview with the conditional Artemy Panarin in Sports.ru, in which the hockey player will criticize Vladimir Putin?

- Certainly. Sports.ru from the very beginning did not consider sport as a thing in himself, divorced from everything around. Now it is an industry standard. Now it is impossible to talk about sports if you do not consider it in its entirety - including at its points of intersection with the economy, politics, and social problems. And it is impossible to reduce conversations with people of sports to questions about which grip grip is more convenient for them - right or left. This is no longer interested in anyone, not only the audience of Sports.ru.

- You said that you had to say no to advertisers. Often?

- Most often, this is a request for advertising without appropriate marks ( the publication of such an advertisement is illegal, but this is a common practice in Russia - approx. Medusa ). It takes place regularly, you have to refuse money. But for a long time, doing this, you earn more: the audience appreciates this.

Well, there are many different specific cases. The approaches to the advertising of the pharma [pharmaceutical companies] were revised-taking something, by the way, from the experience of Medusa.

In 2016, we had political advertising. The experience of its placement was considered not particularly successful, there were too many complaints from users. In the future, they abandoned her.

- That political advertising was an advertisement for the Yabloko party. If it were United Russia , would you post?

-Then yes: if you agree to sell an advertisement for a political property, you are under the law, you have no right to refuse any of the parties participating in the elections. But you can abandon political advertising in principle, to which the Sports.ru team bowed to.

Someone will not like my opinion, but in the case of a direct, obvious, appropriately marked advertising, I personally generally against any selectivity, with the exception of the law. Sellers of bread or electricity do not filter customers according to their personal preferences, sell everyone.

But the media in this regard is a little more complicated: we have to take into account the reaction and loyalty of readers. The loss of this loyalty in the long run hits you stronger than the money that has been lost today from the client.

- Earlier, the control package Sports.ru (67.75%) was in German Tkachenko. Was he very much involved in the project?

- Strongly. This was his largest investment, Herman had to invest almost all his money - at the stage when no one was ready to invest in Sports.ru. But Tkachenko perfectly understood what we were talking about from the very beginning: the media has a dramatically more chance of being in demand and successful, if you do it without unnecessary restrictions, honestly.

- Investing a lot of money, Tkachenko hoped to get it back as soon as possible?

- No. German Tkachenko was just a fantastically patient investor. Sports.ru was objectively lucky with him. In the part of the [possible] sale of the company or a share in it [on his part, there was no excess pressure, which allowed us to evade the interest of winding state media holdings, on the account of which a long list of broken media. And most importantly-not to take money for “trading in influence”, “stop lists” and other forms of seemingly easy earnings, which also ruined a bunch of media, including those who competed with us.

Observing the most basic media standards is not just morally - this is profitable, since at a long distance it turns into an exceptional loyalty of the audience and allows you to earn more.

I wanted to think that German Tkachenko was lucky with Sports.ru. The company eventually became a full -fledged media business, one of the best in the country just like a business - and gave good ROI .

- In general, how correctly, in your opinion, to talk about ethics, when the co -founders are selling business? About the ethics of the sale of a media project, for example?

- Oh! Somehow I never managed to match someone else's ideas about ethics. Always focused only on his own.

If on our planet a certain ethical committee should consider the question of whether the founders can capitalize the results of investments and a conscientious 15-year work, then I will ask for another planet.

- Did you feel that the pressure on Sports.ru has increased in recent years?

-I am not inclined to seduct, accept something that is happening in Russia at our expense. Except for a specific episode when the bosses of Gazprom-Media-not only [the general producer of Match TV] Tina Kandelaki-tried to destroy Sports.ru, which prevented them so much.

The rest, although it beat Sports.ru too, [nevertheless] was addressed to everyone in general [on the market]: monopolization of the media market, the expulsion of foreign investors from the media, Roskomnadzor, contradictory and unnatural laws.

But there are “laws of physics” that cannot be canceled with a decision from above. The growing interest in sports - and he is still behind in Russia both from Western Europe and from Eastern, therefore continues to grow every year. The growing share of the Internet in the media consumption of people. Yes, just the ripening of the generation, which is not close to the state language and the approach, he needs living and human.

The latter is most important. This leaves a space in which you can honestly live, work and earn. In the same Yura Dudia, this turned out at all twice - first with Sports.ru, and then with solo yutyub.

- What were the financial indicators of the site and related projects?

- Sports.ru profitable for a long time. But there were strong strokes for the stability of the company. For example, in 2015-there was an extremely difficult year, they suffered painful losses, both in money and in people.

Three years ago, our Ukrainian "Tribune" became profitable. And shortly before the blocking and the Belarusian "Tribune" reached the payback. Now, when she is blocked in Belarus, he continues to work, in fact, underground. The loyalty of the audience is so strong that people consume us in other ways available to them: through VPN, telegrams, mobile applications, look at Utube.

We still invest in other international projects, they do not pay off yet. And they intend to invest further. All of them were not included in the transaction on Sports.ru.

- Are you calling the numbers?

- We call only audit indicators. Sports.ru has about 20 million users per month if you add all the platforms. We do not disclose money, it has never been part of our public communication.

- How true are the “contour.focus” data that the net profit of Sports.ru in 2019 amounted to 17.5 million rubles?

- Not particularly.

- Are they underestimated or overstated?

- Excuse me, but we really do not call the amount.

- Why don't you call the numbers? You tell how Sports.ru is effective as a business.

- Well, only public companies are obliged to do this that attracts money to a wide range of people, and seeking to become like that. Private companies do this extremely rarely. Not sure that this does, for example, Medusa. Correct me if I am mistaken, but, in my opinion, not all your shareholders are announced ( Medusa does not reveal its financial indicators; the founders of the company-Galina Timchenko and Ivan Kolpakov; both now lead the "Medusa" -editorial approx .).

I would generally be happy to call the numbers, there is something to be proud of. This is one of the largest transactions in the history of Russia - if you take separate media, not holding. But the decision regarding numbers is common, not only mine.

- What was the price of the transaction?

- Under the terms of the contract, it is not disclosed.

- I saw the numbers called other media managers: from 25 to 40 million dollars. Can you designate - at least in this range?

- No, sorry.

- Why did not international projects enter the deal?

- We still have to grow these projects, I hope - many times. And the buyer had interest in Russia.

- Why did you decide to sell Sports.ru now?

- There is no special connotation for the date of sale. This could well be 2019, and, as I said above, 2014.

- What was Sports.ru for you?

-Uh, well, more or less. For a long time I had to deal with 24/7, and this was a favorite thing. Then other projects began to grow up, and Sports.ru demanded less and less my participation. Two years ago, I had already lost the position of CEO to a more suitable person who grew up inside the company, Mark Tenu. And since then it is even more interesting for me to read Sports.ru - when you see that the new generation does better than you yourself would.

- What does this sale mean to you? Didn't you have to go against yourself?

— Напротив, это подтверждение того, о чем я всегда и везде говорил — в интервью, на многочисленных конференциях и т. д. Что можно, несмотря ни на что, делать честный медийный бизнес — и зарабатывать на этом. О-о-очень сложно, но можно.

Недостаточно людей в это верит, недостаточно людей пытается. Кто-то еще готов инвестировать в это свое время, и давно почти нет тех, кто был бы готов инвестировать деньги. In vain. Sports.ru был именно что инвестицией, и эта инвестиция оказалась вполне хорошей.

— Вам не будет обидно, если что-то с делом вашей жизни случится в ближайший год, например?

— Конечно, было бы обидно — и через год, и через пять. Но [на протяжении всего интервью] я уже пытаюсь убеждать вас, что Sports.ru — это правда не Навоша и не Ткаченко. Как выяснилось за последние полтора года, даже не Дудь. Без любого из нас это вполне себе жизнеспособная штука. Я правда так думаю.

— Вы и другой основатель Sports.ru Дмитрий Степанов войдете в совет директоров издания как наблюдатели. What will this mean?

— Хотим быть рядом на случай, если понадобится помощь.

— А какая помощь может понадобиться?

— Да вообще любая.

— Как редакция отреагировала на продажу? Звучали опасения?

— Звучали. 2021 год, Россия. Обстановочка довольно гнетущая, прямо скажем. Плюс всегдашний страх любых перемен, заложенный в каждого из нас.

Но тут как: глаза боятся, а руки делают. Увидел вот кое-где в соцсетях прям отпевание. Братцы, это вы зря. Sports.ru вас переубедит.

Дмитрий Навоша отказался ответить на несколько вопросов «Медузы», указав, что, по его мнению, в ходе интервью он уже дал на них исчерпывающий ответ. Три из этих вопросов нам кажутся важными. Here they are. 1. Что особенного есть в устройстве Sports.ru (в отличие от других медиа), что может защитить его от попыток цензуры? 2. Остаются ли у вас какие-либо рычаги, чтобы не допустить цензуры в Sports.ru (если будут осуществляться ее попытки)? 3. Не жаль ли вам, что российский медиарынок таков, что лучшим покупателем дела вашей жизни стал человек, основавший прокремлевскую партию?

Беседовала Александра Владимирова