"And the wolves are all fierce." Lawyer Ivan Pavlov - about the FSB and persecution

Lawyer Ivan Pavlov, against whom, according to the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation, a criminal case of the Stateizer was instituted , considers him a "mistake" and believes that when his lawyer gets acquainted with the materials, "everything will fall into place." The defender said this in a conversation with Radio Liberty. The new case became known from the new submission of the Ministry of Justice of Russia about the deprivation of Pavlov of a lawyer status. It entered the Bar Chamber of St. Petersburg on December 15. According to the document, the case under the article "State treason" was opened by the Investigative Committee on April 27 this year.

It is noted that this is the fourth attempt by the Ministry of Justice to deprive Pavlov’s status of a lawyer, but in previous ideas there were no references to the criminal case under such a difficult article. Pavlov himself suggested that the officials of the ministry made a mistake and in their document had in mind the case of disclosure of the investigation data, also in the spring against a lawyer. He does not know anything about the accusation of the Stateizer.

The creator of the Bar "team 29" Ivan Pavlov has been specializing in criminal cases of treason, extremism and the protection of citizens from state security agencies for more than twenty years. In particular, he represented the interests of journalist Ivan Safronov, accused of Gosizman, as well as the Corruption Fund in the case of recognizing his extremist organization.

In April, a criminal case was instituted against Ivan Pavlov on a violation of the secrets of the investigation, which concerns Safronov. According to the FSB, the lawyer illegally transferred a decree to the media to further publish a journalist to criminal liability, and also reported the existence of a secret witness in the case. Pavlov denies guilt. In his opinion, he only reported the facts of violation of the law in relation to Safronov. The lawyer also stated that he was pursued for a fundamental position on a number of cases that the FSB investigated.

In July, the team “29” created by Pavlov stopped work, as it was recognized as the Russian authorities with an “unwanted organization”. The statement of the “team” said that “the continuation of the activity creates a direct threat to the safety of a large number of people” and that human rights activists “cannot ignore this risk”.

In September, Ivan Pavlov went abroad due to the impossibility of continuing professional activities in Russia. After that, he was put on the wanted list. In November, the Ministry of Justice included Pavlov and four of his colleagues, former participants in the team 29, in the list of foreign agents.

In an interview with Radio Liberty, Ivan Pavlov evaluates a new attempt by the Ministry of Justice to deprive him of his lawyer status, talks about the FSB attempts to accuse him of Gosizmen and reflects on whether the Russian lawyer community is capable of corporate solidarity:

This is such a typo, but a typo on Freud

-I still think that in the new performance of the Ministry of Justice a typo. I know how things are excited about treason, and now everything looks very strange. There is never any gap between the initiation of a criminal case and the moment of implementation and there is always an element of surprise. When a criminal case is opened, this immediately entails certain actions by the special services, but in this case we observe this. Therefore, I am still inclined to believe that this is such a typo, but a typo on Freud. Because my procedural opponents (I mean the FSB, but not even the Ministry of Justice) have been behaving unsportsively for a long time. The Ministry of Justice performs commands that come from real puppeteers, which is the FSB. The date that stands in this paragraph is April 27, 2021, and we understand that another criminal case has been instituted-under Article 310 "Disclosure of the data of a preliminary investigation". I know about this case, because I am accused of it. I think that we are talking about this case, although I soon find out for sure. Because in this paragraph, which says about the criminal case allegedly instituted against me under the 275th article of the Criminal Code "State treason", a reference to the application to this representation of the Ministry of Justice is mentioned. My defender will soon get acquainted with this application, and everything will fall into place.

- As far as I understand, this is the idea that the Ministry of Justice sent to you is the fourth in a row. You called it more rigid and ultimatum. What is the essence of the claims of the department?

I am charged with the next non -appeal for investigative actions in the case of Ivan Safronov

- Some claims are repeated completely inappropriate, since the claims that appear in a new performance are already considered in the previous times. From the new one - I am charged with the next inappropriation for investigative actions in the case of Ivan Safronov and the non -notice of investigators in these non -appeals. But here my position has not changed: several defenders participate in Safronov’s business, good lawyers work, we are a team of like -minded people, we have no conflict inside, we understand each other at a glance. By agreement with our client, we ourselves determine who will participate in a particular investigative action. This is a normal practice, we always act like that. So all defenders work who are involved in collective protection. The investigator should not be interested in who specifically from ten defenders will participate in the next investigative action. Some of them will definitely come. The most important thing is that the client does not object and he was enough defenders who will appear on investigative actions. Thus, his right to defense will be guaranteed, and no interests of the investigator are infringed here. This is not the case of the investigator - to try to find out in advance which of the defenders will come to court and who will not appear. Sometimes this is even a tactical task: sometimes, defenders use the possibilities not prohibited by law in order to best protect the rights of their client. We used this tactical opportunity and did not come to court with the whole composition, but only necessary for a specific investigative action.

-Are there any other serious complaints about your work?

It turns out that the Ministry of Justice does not agree with Vladimir Vladimirovich

- Other claims are emotional. These emotions overwhelmed the author so much that he made such an annoying typo in his view. Emotions came down to the fact that Pavlov is a “foreign agent”, this status would disgrace him and cause irreparable damage to his reputation. Here I immediately recall the words of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, who says that the status of a foreign agent is just such a technical moment. People are included in the register, but this does not infringe on their rights and does not affect their reputation. It turns out that the Ministry of Justice does not agree with Vladimir Vladimirovich. Although I think that the Ministry of Justice here is really not far from the truth: the meaning of the legislation on foreign agents is precisely this. The Ministry of Justice simply tried to be sincere, but I think that my colleagues who will consider this performance will find what to answer.

- What are you expecting from the lawyer's chamber? After all, you have already warned her about the inability to compromise, that this compromise would entail serious consequences. Now we see these consequences. And they are less and less at least formally relate to law and become more and more emotional ...

When you retreat, they step on you

- I would like my colleagues from the chamber to be guided by the common sense and interests of a lawyer who did not violate any laws. But also the interests of the advocacy in general. I do not always adhere to some radical views, often I am a supporter of compromises, but a compromise should be of some benefit. What benefits will be a compromise for a lawyer corporation, if we go a little to meet law enforcement agencies and sacrifice lawyer Pavlov? For example, we will announce a remark to him. What benefit will the corporation get from this? I do not see an answer to this question. It does not bear any benefit for the profession, for the advocacy, such a compromise. This is not a compromise, it is just a pure retreat. And when you retreat, they step on you. Because these are security forces. They live according to the laws that the weak beat. And I do not understand why the wise people who work in the bodies of lawying self -government are not aware of this.

-More than once I heard that the advocacy in Russia now is almost the only more or less independent institution that is preserved in the country and is trying to act in the legal field, despite existing laws. But there is a feeling that there is a goal to destroy the advocacy as an independent institution in Russia. Do you agree with this?

The advocacy must learn to show corporate solidarity

-Indeed, the advocacy remains the last independent institution of civil society, which is somehow trying to maintain its independence. But these attempts seem to me somewhat awkward. After all, if we are a corporation, if we believe that we are a corporation, then we have some kind of power. In Russia, if you do not demonstrate your strength, then you are a weakness, and they beat the weak. It seems to me that the advocacy should learn to show its teeth, show this strength and corporate solidarity.

- Can lawyers and advocates “show teeth”, given the situation that has developed in Russia, and obviously prohibited techniques that are used against it? You and your closest associate Yevgeny Smirnov were forced to leave the country, and these are the most striking examples in this sense ...

Sheep is less and less, but the wolves are all fierce

- In my opinion, in the upper echelons of the advocacy, those who are at the helm, the desire to fight for their independence are now not enough. But this does not mean that the situation will not change in some near future. I would say that it all depends on the demand for the independence that the corporation can show. It is clear that there are forces that strive to return everything to the point of status-vvo: the wolves are full and the sheep are intact, but the sheep is getting less and less, and the wolves are fierce and fierce, ”says lawyer Ivan Pavlov.

Earlier it was reported that former employees of the team of lawyers "team 29", declared by the ino -agent, reported the creation of a new human rights project called "First Department", which will deal with cases related to stateisms and extremism.

The organization’s spokesman told the rain (the television channel was also recognized by the media “ino-agent”) that lawyers will work in Russia, the names of which will not always be revealed due to the danger of possible repression.

The lawyers Ivan Pavlov, Valery Vetoshkin, as well as lawyers Yevgeny Smirnov and Anton Golubev will work from abroad in the register of the media, the “foreign agents”. They will take up the provision of clients, consultations, the development of tactics and the defense strategy, attracting the attention of the public and the media.

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