Vitautas Landsbergis: "Russia is successfully turned into a madhouse"

In January 1991, Soviet troops tried to return to Lithuania, announcing their independence, to the USSR. This attempt ended ingloriously, but the assault on the Vilnius TV tower and other reckless military operations led to the deaths and wounds of civilians. We were waiting for the assault on the building of the Lithuanian parliament. Resistance was led by the head of the Supreme Council Vitautas Landsbergis, an architect of Lithuanian independence. Like the President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky, the musicologist Landsbergis had nothing to do with military affairs, but Lithuania under his leadership defended his freedom.

In a conversation with RS, Vitautas Landsbergis (b. 1932) reflects on the similarity of the agony of the USSR with what is happening with the Russian Empire:

- I see a very great similarity and a common source, the general basis of these atrocities that occur today in Ukraine, and took place in Chechnya, the Baltic states and so on. The similarity in the perverted, brutalized nature of the Soviet man. This is the result of advisers, Stalinism, and now Putin region.

- The fact that Russia was preparing to attack Ukraine has been warned for a long time. There were reports of the Intelligence Services of the United States and other countries, but, nevertheless, experts, politicians, journalists did not believe that Putin would decide to attack Ukraine. What did you think?

Destroy, and the ruins are still bombed. Maybe there are alive children or patients? Let's finish it off to the end

- This is a very long history of communism, especially in the Bolshevik edition. To attack - it was always in the program, not only to attack, but also to destroy: either capitalism, then the West, and the enemies of the people. All this bloody Mura continues, as a basis for aggression against the peoples who want to live differently, want to live in the world, in harmony, in creativity. Those come to which they destroy, and they are happy to destroy. With pleasure, I would say, sadistic: to destroy, and to bomb the ruins. Maybe there are alive children or patients? Let's finish it to the end. This is a brutality that has roots in long -standing times. So there was no surprise to me and my other associates. The question was only in time, form, offer, and you can always come up with an excuse.

Destroyed residential buildings in Mariupol

- Many people think that the Baltic countries, Poland and other countries of the former Warsaw bloc can be the following goal of Moscow. Do you think such fears are justified?

These are heartless people who kill children, bomb school and hospitals, shelters, destroy cities with the civilian population

- I have already said about this that the whole hated Moloshevik world should be the goal. This is the goal. Since its very existence is already annoying and scares dictators from Bolshevism. There is nothing particularly new and not. I see this in essence - hatred and rejection of another. This "other" now for the Putinists is Ukraine. They not only do not accept it, but also hate it, everything goes on this bestial hatred. The same behavior is crazy. These are heartless people who kill children, bombing schools and hospitals, shelters, destroy cities with a civilian population. But we do not need this population, we will exterminate it until you surrender. You are guilty because you do not give up. This is a madhouse, of course, but a madhouse, elevated to the rank of program policy. This is the hatred of an unworthy person who hates dignity.

- Often, this evil is personify and say that Putin, who has lost his mind, is to blame for everything. Are you talking about collective responsibility?

- Collective responsibility appears by itself. Who denied the collective responsibility of the Germans under Hitler? Now Ukrainian cities are destroyed, although Ukrainians have not attacked anyone. They do not threaten anyone, but they just do not give up - this is already a threat. How will this not give up to us? This is a political psychology that if they are not afraid of me, then they do not respect me, but there is one conversation with the enemy - it must be destroyed. That's the whole chain.

-Something archaic: a consciousness that does not belong to the 21st century.

- It belongs to the Stone Age. My stone is more than your stone, so you must be obedient or I will hand out you with my stone. We have not moved very far from this.

- In the West, many are surprising that in Russia there is no strong anti -war movement, that people do not go out onto the streets, do not protest against war, and support for Putin’s actions, according to sociological surveys, remains very high, even grows. Does it surprise you?

How does this differ from Hitler fascism? Nothing

- Russia has already been successfully turned into a madhouse. I am not very surprised when I remember the films about massive gatherings at Hitler. We are above all others, we will rule the world. They gathered and shouted in Luzhniki: the whole world is against us, but we will defeat the whole damned world. How does this differ from Hitler fascism? Nothing.

- Do, in your opinion, Ukraine should make concessions to Putin?

- And why shouldn't Putin make concessions? It is as if Putin is an eternal evil, you cannot have complaints about him, he just needs to be taken as it is, and adapt to this evil.

- Many reproach the West for indecision, in reluctance to provide significant military assistance to Ukraine, to introduce more serious sanctions against Russia. Is there any reason for such criticism?

- There are some grounds, of course. But we can say that this is also a way of washing hands. "Now, if they did there ... Why don't they impose sanctions? And what? And what? And I am sitting under the bush and waiting for whom I will need to adapt if they do not change the situation." There are no such "they" - it's us. How to say to these people in the West that you are to blame for everything, you attacked it, did you create the conditions?

- Buying Russian gas, for example.

- ... Knowing that you are paying for the war, that you are paying for the murders of the population, people, pregnant women, newborns, you pay for this.

- And the authorities of Lithuania are doing enough?

- I would not want to distinguish Lithuania. Lithuania does quite a lot. We are in danger. We are in danger not only from an external attack, but also from our own imperfection, fright, desire to somehow get around it.

- Is there a “fifth column” of Moscow in Lithuania?

-Everywhere exists in Berlin, and in London, and in New York. So there is nothing surprising. But is this "fifth column" in your heart? Here you should take a closer look.

- Can today's Russia, in your opinion, repeat the path of the USSR? Are there any prerequisites for a new round of collapse of the empire?

Maybe the Lord God will decide that this must be stopped: my project failed, I will try on another planet

- This breakdown is already going on. Essentially, the collapse of the Russian Empire comes from the First World War. The first, World War II, Cold War is the same war, a war of inhumanity against humanity or vice versa: the resistance of humanity to fascism. What happened in Bolshevik Russia was red fascism. Stalin is red fascism. Now Putin's fascism, how to paint it? Who cares? Gray-brown-raspberry.

- And each of these fascisms has one final?

- With our technologies and the degradation of mankind, there may be a complete ending, it may not become human civilization on this planet. Maybe the Lord God will decide that this must be stopped: my project failed, I will try on another planet. Maybe such a decision.

- It is unlikely that Putin can be an instrument of God's will?

- Complex questions. God's will or devilish? After all, God's will can also call on the Devil's comrade in order to clean the space.

- Recently, the documentary "Mr. Landsbergis" was released about how Lithuania gained independence. And here is such a paradoxical news about the exclusion of director Sergei Loznitsa from the Ukrainian Film Academy. What do you think about this decision?

The films of Sergey Loznitsa are the honor and glory of Ukraine. He is a Ukrainian by blood and an outstanding person

- This is just one of the peaks of absurdities. I knew the work of Loznitsa even as long as we worked on his film about the liberation of Lithuania. Why is he now in disgrace of his colleagues? I read an explanation of this amazing act of the Ukrainian movie academy, performed by personal hostility to the great master of art of cinema. After all, the films of Sergey Loznitsa are the honor and glory of Ukraine. He is a Ukrainian by blood and an outstanding person. There is some small envy together to be proud of what is in the world of a luster and he is from Ukraine-after all, this is a great argument in favor of Ukraine. And then just as if the Putins were sitting there and killed this argument. Strongly regret. I recall the film "The process", here is the "process" - this is exactly what is happening over the Loznitsa. Someone grunted his custody, colleagues voted for absurdity. He did not deny the Russian culture, which means that he is a bad Ukrainian. "The Ukrainian must hate Russian culture." Who decided it? New Hitler? Hitler had Jews at hand, Putin at the hand of Ukraine. And someone offers Ukrainians to accept a similar model: so let's deny and hate everything Russian. Why is everything Russian? What to do with the disagreements that went to mass demonstrations and hoped that somehow the regime would change? And today there are disagreements with the war, they are not still obsessed with hatred for Ukraine. I think that the Loznitsa sees these people and his colleagues, I simply do not agree to be ranked to the enemies of Ukraine, and someone demanded that from him. Since he has a different approach, so he is a bad Ukrainian. I do not think he is bad, he is just a smart Ukrainian.

Vitautas Landsbergis in the film by Sergey Loznitsa "Mr. Landsbergis"

- The question that is now raising very often and is speculating Putin, who says that they supposedly in the West decided to cancel Russian culture, cancel Chekhov, and cancel Tchaikovsky. This, of course, is not true, but in principle, such topics are discussed by Russian intellectuals: maybe Russian culture is flawed, it no longer has the right to teach the world? What do you think of such disputes?

Putinshchina is hiding behind Russian culture, and impersonate a representative of Russian culture. But this is an enemy of Russian culture

- I think these are disputes on an erroneous path. Because the question is about the identification of Russia with Stalin-Putin. Let's get back to the Loznitsa. Did he speak for the war against Ukraine, for Putin's aggression? But he also did not speak out for the identification of Russia with Stalin-Putin, for the rejection of Russia as a whole with all the Russians who ever lived or live, including those who disagree with evil. So, then do you agree with evil if you are against them? If you are a Ukrainian, you must be against everything Russian - something like this I understand this speech against Sergei Loznitsa. And if you do not speak out against everything Russian, then you are a bad Ukrainian. It is stupid and wrong. Because a person should be higher than such hatred, denial is not essentially. Of course, it is impossible to put up with evil, but the Loznitsa has no reconciliation with evil, he simply unmasked the Stalinist evil. And so far it is very relevant. Putinshchina is lying indistinguishable that they do not love us, and we will defeat them. That's how it was in the Luzhniki, such a cursing scream: the whole world is against us. So the Nazis thought: we are above all, and you are not worthy of existence. So, probably, Putinites now believe that Ukrainians are not worthy of existence.

- should Russian culture and Putin region be separated, which tries to expropriate it and use it for its own purposes?

- Yes, Putinshchina is hiding behind Russian culture, and impersonate a representative of Russian culture. But this is an enemy of Russian culture, which made so much evil for Russia, the Russian people, Russian culture, like no one else.