Former Novosibirsk governor: “Many have learned to talk about import substitution, and those who had to deal with them have missed 20 years”

Instead of import substitution, state structures were diluted by what was in Russia, said the Novosibirsk ex-governor Vasily Yurchenko. He spoke about the dependence of engineering on foreign supplies, problems with public procurement, the ability to return to the authorities and that the current project of the fourth bridge across the Ob will only worsen the transport situation.

The head of the company MetalService-Novosibirsk, ex-governor Vasily Yurchenko talked with the "Center for Business Life". Taiga.info partially reprints the interview with the permission of the editorial office.

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"It is impossible to buy everything, some things will not be sold to you for any money"

- How do you assess the dependence of the Metal Service on imports? What are your risks due to sanctions?

- There are serious risks on imported equipment from Europe. Counterparties from Italy refused to fulfill obligations, despite the payment already made. One unit stood 10 days. We have to find non -standard solutions so that everything works. Specialists at the plant are competent, they were able to launch everything. I hope that technical services will cope in other similar situations, if necessary. But the dependence, in general, is large.

- The import substitution, which everyone is talking about, must open new opportunities for Russian business. For your company, what can they be expressed in?

- The plant’s products are delivered only to the CIS markets. For European markets, we go through quality, but because of logistics, we do not fit into profitability. The CIS has a very competitive pipe market. Many different manufacturers. This is not import substitution; we do not have external competitors in the Russian market. Import substitution is more relevant on the equipment on which tubular companies operate. It is supplied by Europe, China, South Korea. In principle, this applies to the entire machine -building complex.

Many have learned to talk about import substitution, and those who had to deal with them in practice missed 15–20 years. I saw how the basic sectors of the economy were destroyed in the calculation that "we will buy everything abroad." Everything is impossible to buy, because some things will not be sold to you for any money for various reasons. The Ministry of Industry, State Corporations, and other government agencies, instead of import substitution, diluted what was. Maybe the production was not very competitive, but it was its own, and it could be modernized, brought to another level. I will not give examples, they are known to everyone. In my opinion, this is due to incompetence, with unprofessionalism, but in some places that people did not deal with state interests.

And there were opportunities. The engineering school was even better than now. But for import substitution, serious tax preferences were required for finance. It was necessary to untie the hands of those who wanted to do this.

-Can the 44th and 223rd federal laws on public procurement contribute to import substitution?

-Since I have been working in a military-industrial complex for many years (the last few decades it is customary to call it a defense-industrial complex, but I am more pleasant to me, although I am not a warlike person), I understand that there is no good cheap. When the law on public procurement was created, I spoke discussions at the Ministry of Economic Development of the Russian Federation - how can you buy the quality you need with good guarantees at the lowest price? Is the most important task of the state is less to spend? And the life cycle? And the content, repair? In this way, you can buy for a ruble, and then in 5 years 100 thousand are invested so that it somehow works. It is more correct to pay a fair price for solving the problem. And take into account the cost of the entire life cycle.

When Igor Levitin was the Minister of Transport of the Russian Federation, we discussed one idea, and even approached practical embodiment. The ideology was as follows: the contractor wins not only the construction of the road, but also its maintenance on the cycle before the first overhaul, including its implementation. That is, for a period of 10 years. This is the right state approach. The contractor understands: if he does not make the way well, you will have to spend a lot on repairs at his own expense.

We and I, with Novosibirskavtodor, were built from the village of Kirza in the Horde district to the border with the Altai Territory. The old road there was like death. Passenger transport without violations could not be launched. Distance is about 30 kilometers. I set the task to build in a year, but I managed to make it faster. They started in September, finished in August. I remember that the former envoy Anatoly Kvashnin called me, cursed: what are you, they say, are doing? The yard is December, and you build the road to steal money?! And I say: we have winter 8 months, and the road needs to be built in a year, there is technology for this. And the road made such quality that it is still almost in perfect condition.

We laid out such a principle that the contractor understood - it is more profitable for him if the road lasts longer. So I can talk about the 44th law openly, because I criticized it before adoption.

- Now it’s not too late to change the law?

- It is never too late to cancel the wrong solutions. A strong leader is able to cancel the non-optimal decision, adopted in some circumstances. Any leader may not know any nuances. Some factors may change, this must be taken into account.

“30% can be reduced without getting up. And then engage in thin tuning "

- What are the growth points in the regional economy find the most promising in the current conditions? What do you need to concentrate resources?

-This is scientific and educational potential. Following the technopark, you need to create new development institutions. In terms of transport and logistics complexes, great potential, taking into account the advantages of the geographical location. In mechanical engineering, a lot is lost, but not all. There is a large - interregional - the potential of our health care. There are powerful clinics, a strong material and technical base. Given the demographic situation, concentration in cities, the inability to reach every small settlement, it is necessary to solve the problem of personnel and quality of medical care. To do this, you need to reformat the healthcare model - not only in the Novosibirsk region, but, at least in the eastern part of the country.

- Under your leadership, the regional healthcare was reformatted: the Novosibirsk Gorestrav was liquidated after the transfer of functions to the government level. How does it evaluate the results of this reform?

- The decision was correct. But it was necessary to do a number of things that remained unrealized no longer of my will. The city hall duplicated functions that were more correctly concentrated at the regional level - for money, and specialists, and in approaches. Here is an example: the Novosibirsk district is encircling Novosibirsk, and the resident of Krivodanovka had to go to the doctor in Krasnobsk ...

- Nothing has changed, and you have to ride.

- Why go to a sick person through the whole city? I proposed to make a single system, including to optimize routing, so that residents of the region could be treated in city clinics and hospitals. The decisions were difficult. They beat all involved in all: the governor, according to the minister, for all leaders. But they were right. It is bad that the reform was stopped.

- At the federal level, the idea of ​​creating macro -regions was discussed as one of the development scenarios. Including in Western Siberia. Technologies allow you to ensure that Tomich could come to Novosibirsk to work in the morning on a high -speed train, and leave home in the evening. What tasks would help to solve enlargement?

- Under today's model of the federal device, the association of the Novosibirsk and Tomsk regions will not solve the problem of accelerated message. There will be one governor for two large subjects, but he will not be given resources for such decisions. I do not see any advantages in the unification of the Siberian regions. We have enough decisions that need to be made in the Novosibirsk region in the structure of management at the municipal and regional levels. When in 2004 I came to the administration to work at the invitation of the governor of his deputy, a month later said that I would reduce the number of the industry and entrepreneurship department by 30%. The governor said - Come on, and six months later you will come to ask for an increase in the number of bets. I reduced, and then did not ask for an increase. Now in subjects the system is ineffective: a lot of state and municipal employees, which parallel and duplicate processes. The acute need to reconsider the powers, numbers, structure has ripened. 30% can be reduced without getting up. And then already engage in more subtle setting. But imagine what it means to reduce 30%now?

- Employees will not be happy.

- Yes, they will say unpleasant words addressed to me. As in a time when, working as the first vice-governor, I learned about the parallel pension system for officials who existed along with the national, and began to ask questions of what it suddenly ... All within the framework of the law, of course. But this is not social justice. Not according to my principles.

Ineffective systems in both the economy and the government should be improved. Otherwise, a positive evolutionary change cannot be dispensed with. Life is changing, society is changing. Technologies come others. This means that the systems should tune in to reality, and not live as they are used to. Wean. You can’t wean - it means that others who are not accustomed to the past will make the present and future.

"Sometimes you need to make decisions so that money becomes cheaper than the market"

-You have experience both the conductor of state lords in relation to business and the leader in the business structure. How do you assess the effectiveness of state support measures? What is in demand, what is missing?

- First of all, business needs a minimum of regulation. No need to climb into issues that the business can solve it yourself. The mandatory presence of the state is necessary in all aspects of security. But not excessive. And this is correctly talked about in the Russian government. What Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin does the last year is absolutely correct. I know him well more at work in the Federal Tax Service, I talked a lot with him. He realizes long -standing developments. Not as fast as we would like, but the process goes. To some structures, it is definitely across the throat. Bread is taken from some corrupt officials ... This is the main thing. Also in the crisis, an affordable financial resources are a very important measure of support. So we talked about import substitution - but how to solve such problems if banks have loans at 17%?

- The Central Bank has reduced the key rate to 14%...

- And what, now loans are 15%? In such a situation, this is a decrease?! Do not laugh me! With such a fall in the economy?! That is why many will have problems. The working capital today should increase by 1.5–2 times due to rising prices and other things. In most cases, you can only increase it with loans. And in the bank they say - 15+2%, and they will not give everyone. Maybe 20%. Where with such bets? It is clear that money cannot be free. But sometimes you need to make decisions so that for some sectors the money becomes cheaper than the market. Provided that these investments will pay off for the state.

Here is an example of the industrial and logistics park of the Novosibirsk region. In 2004, I agreed to go to work in the administration, provided that I can implement this project. For a year, however, the Governor of Tolokonsky suspended the process, but then the matter went. How many critics were at different levels! They shouted that the money, they say, is nowhere ... Now the PLP paid off in all directions, and where are those critics? Where are those crazy conclusions of the Control and Counter Chamber? .. And now everyone says: PLP is a flagship, we are well done! Meanwhile, other specialists took this project on their shoulders, with initiated criminal cases ...

Then we invested it, realizing that the return would be in 10 years. And the law then broke through the support of industrial and logistics parks. The Governor of the Kaluga region Artamonov and I then stole all the offices in Moscow, said to the president: we have poor regions, we create the future. There is no extra money in the budgets, we invest the latter in order to create jobs. Through the period, tax revenues will go. Then we managed to solve the problem with compensations from the federal budget for infrastructure. They began to receive it in 2015-2016. All investments in the infrastructure have already paid off. And PLP brings more and more return to the budget of the region.

"Infrastructure facilities are needed with other priorities"

- We are talking to the Kuzmin factory, a congress is pulled here along the station from the future interchange of the central bridge. It is believed that in crisis periods the state should save the economy, actively investing in infrastructure. What infrastructure areas of development for Novosibirsk do you consider priority?

- In difficult times, infrastructure facilities give the loading of the economy in many areas. They solve the issue of employment, income of the population. But even in crisis moments you need to focus on the long -term result. Infrastructure is created not for a year or two, but for decades.

- And how quickly time flies: the central bridge was just starting to build after the crisis of 2014, when the economy also needed state doping.

- Decisions on the construction of the fourth bridge were made back in 2012. Preparation of the model, coordination with the federal center - our team was doing this. And the main task was not a bridge. The main thing was to untie on the left bank a stressed knot on the areas of power engineers and labor, and untie the southern area on the right. And the bridge was only a connecting link. Why the project was later reformatted is a question for those who did it. And for these decisions you will have to answer once. After all, the problems, which were acutely back in 2012, will only be aggravated. The South Square does not affect the bridge, "jumping" on the Hippodrome. And on the left bank, it was supposed to expand the street wide Street with the exit beyond the trolleybus depot, to the “clean settlement” and on the ring in the far part of the station, with the denouement through the Trans -Siberian Railway. This would allow unloading the station. At least a dozen million could be spent more so that the overpass “jumped” at least one railway crossing to the station, but this was not done: the descent from the highway will rest against the barrier ...

I will not criticize, this is the easiest, of course. But infrastructure facilities are needed with other priorities. Big government money should be used in a dull. To unload the center of Novosibirsk, it was necessary to build the interchanges of the Bugrinsky bridge. This would give more than the fourth bridge. With lower costs and a greater effect, several more narrow places could be broken. In addition, the concept of the completion of the Dzerzhinskaya metro line was worked out. In the first quarter of 2014, negotiations were held with German, Czech and Chinese companies. The terms of the project and the financial model were agreed.

- How is the concession?

- No. The contractor would have completed the line, and the regional budget would be calculated within 7 years after commissioning. The expansion of the network would increase the revenue of the subway, he would also participate in construction, as in Moscow. Everything was calculated. The conditions were good, because then the capacities of sinter shields were released in the world. The companies were left without work, and we managed to drive the prices down.

-Meanwhile, we are still blamed for the unpreparedness of design estimates on the Dzerzhinsky line, even though the mayor of the elbow and assures that it is ready, but there is not enough little.

“It's better to ask him.” I already talked about the elbow, I can only repeat that the city was not lucky with the mayor.

- As a resident of the Street Streets, you see an increasing conflict: the street is crossed by railway crossings and filled with freight transport, and at the same time it is the only highway to Tolmachevo International Airport, and increased requirements are imposed in this regard. Accessibility plays an important role for the airport, which even in the current conditions remains one of the growth points for the region. How to steal this situation?

- We need to return to the project of expansion wide with the construction of a denouement near the ring on the highway to Tolmachevo. I even forced the city hall there to reserve the earth there, so that I would not have to buy it later, when it comes to construction. I don't know the other way. The public came out with proposals, to go around the collapse on the Power Engineering Square through the territories of our factory, Sibselmash, and other enterprises. But I will not even comment on this, we are talking about the current industrial sites.

-What fate awaits “Grand City”-an idle shopping and entertainment complex in the backyard of your plant for many years?

- Until 2018, I have never been there. We use, but not for its intended purpose. The object is non -core, we got along with the site after the bankruptcy of the Estar holding. While it turns out there is not very cool.

- Maybe now is just a favorable moment to open a new grocery or clothing market there?

- Enough, I closed one duffel market - Gusinobrodsky. The results are known.

-Well, the wholesale and retail trade has survived there, having moved over time to new complexes ...

- I had the other. Когда было принято окончательное решение по закрытию Гусинобродской барахолки, люди, которые, скажем культурно, курировали её работу, приложили немало стараний и финансового участия, чтобы случилось 19 марта 2014 года (в этот день президент Путин отправил губернатора Юрченко в отставку — прим.ред.).

«Если нарушил закон, то нужно отвечать. Но я не нарушил ни на йоту»

— Восемь лет спустя после отставки истёк срок, в рамках которого вам было запрещено занимать посты во власти. Есть ли в этой связи какие-то виды на госслужбу?

— Никогда не был пассивным человеком, но сегодня об этом не думаю. Всегда служил государству, за вычетом последних четырёх лет, которые работал на частную компанию. Срок ограничений истёк 1 марта. Причём все ждали, что он закончится годом ранее. Но из-за того, что меня не лишали свободы, к трём годам запрета автоматически добавили ещё один. Есть такая норма в УПК, как выяснилось. В любом случае, я ещё не все задачи решил из числа согласованных с собственником «Металлсервиса». Пока я нужен компании.

— Понравилось в частном бизнесе?

— Если знаешь, что делаешь, если есть понимание с собственником и с коллегами — да, это тоже приносит удовлетворение.

— В истории с уголовным делом о продаже участка на Чаплыгина, по которому вас осудили за превышение полномочий, поставлена точка?

- Of course not. Дело об участке на Чаплыгина я считаю беспрецедентным нарушением права, всех законов, мыслимых и немыслимых. Там чуть ли не мистика в приговоре прописана. Нарушений с моей стороны нет, потерпевших нет. В приговоре написано, что директор ОАО «ГазТрансКом» Шарапов боялся меня так, что отменил аукцион за сутки до получения от меня письма с рекомендациями не нарушать права инвесторов. Он экстрасенс, что ли? И в решении суда это так буднично описано… Ущерба нет. А обвинение по 286 статье за превышение полномочий невозможно без ущерба. Пострадавшей стороной сделали «ГазТрансКом», который заплатил 17 тысяч рублей за объявление об аукционе, который не состоялся. Но эти деньги были бы в любом случае потрачены, вне зависимости от успешности аукциона, так что даже тут ущерба нет. Если нарушил закон, то нужно отвечать. Но я не нарушил ни на йоту. Я буду восстанавливать своё доброе имя, используя все возможности правового поля.

«Никогда не поздно отменять неправильные решения», «Центр деловой жизни», 6 мая 2022 года