"If I live abroad, I must say"

Interview with Nadezhda Karpova - the most famous Russian football player. She condemns the war and athletes who are silent about her, supports LGBTK+ and calls Putin "an old asshole"

Espanyola's Spanish football player Nadezhda Karpova is one of the few athletes with the Russian passport who openly opposes the war. In its Instagram , to which 142 thousand people are signed, it publishes anti -war, anti -government and supporting LGBTK+ posts. Carpova concluded Adidas and Chanel advertising contracts, and Lionel Messi included her in his symbolic team of the best football players and football players. Farida Kurbangaleeva talked with Karpova about why Russian athletes, even speaking abroad, do not speak about war and politics, homophobes in the comments and support of Alexei Navalny.

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The IOC proposed to allow the Russians to participate in the Paris Olympics under a neutral flag. Ukraine is categorically against and even threatens to boycott games. Whose side are you on?

- I agree that now, probably, not the moment when everyone should arrange a sport holiday and go to competitions, because these victories will be incorrectly interpreted in Russia itself. Everything will work to strengthen the regime, and the people who make these decisions should understand this. It is no secret that, like for any dictator, sport for Putin is a strong tool for fingering people. Therefore, I am rather in solidarity with Ukrainian politicians: no one [from Russian athletes] should go to the Olympics.

Suppose athletes from Russia or from Belarus, who is also involved in this conflict, will ask to speak about events in Ukraine. I recently stumbled upon such an interview: at the Belarusian tennis player Azarenko, they asked Australian Open about what she was thinking about what was happening (Victoria Azarenko was asked how she relates to the fans to the stands of the Australian open championship and the Z-Simvolik.-Approx. “Colds”) , I began to answer something like this). “Are you a politician? Here I am not a politician! " - In absolutely such a boorish form.

And she does not say: “I will not discuss these topics” or “I am afraid for my life, do not provoke me.” She answers so that another context is turned on immediately. A person who looks at her in Australia gives the impression that this is just a “difficult political situation” and you can go to the side of Russia, or you can - to the side of Ukraine. And her strange answer is super in the hands of this Putin propaganda. This is their main tool - to constantly replace concepts. And they have a huge task in the West: to hook everyone into the heads of the idea that this is not a terrible aggressive war so that the dictator could remain in power. No-no-no! They want everyone to think that this is "just politics." And when Putin begins to flirt with athletes, such as Ovechkin , he and his political technologists are well aware that they buy the loyalty of millions of people who are fans of these athletes, and after all, it still works for propaganda.

I often notice that people from other countries also begin to experience the moment "not everything is so unambiguous." And it seems to me that this must be suppressed. It must be shown that this war is absolutely terrible, and Putin is an aggressor, a fascist, an old dictator. People should understand this very clearly. Therefore, I am absolutely in solidarity with the Ukrainian government, which says: "Under such conditions we should not participate in the Olympics."

You are not sorry that you yourself cannot play for the Russian team?

- It has always been my dream since I began to engage in football - to play for the national team. I played for her, and these, of course, are unreal emotions, this is a superkruto - to represent my country. But in this situation, of course, this is impossible. And, of course, in the near future I will not play for the Russian team.

This will be possible only when the war ends and all the criminals will be punished. When society understands that it was a terrible crime, and, of course, when the political system is replaced. I do not want to be someone's puppet.

Can you imagine that individual Russian athletes can oppose war in order to be able to compete under a neutral flag?

- It depends on the athlete, on his desire, how much he wants to go. As far as I know, we have tennis player Dasha Kasatkin - the first racket of Russia. In any case, she was her at the moment when she made her anti -war statement. But she does not train in Russia and probably lives too. Therefore, theoretically, this is possible from the outside, for example, a number of tennis players who can afford it.

Why are Russian athletes in the vast majority of silence about the war? Units were an exception - for example, the same Kasatkin or football player Fedor Smolov.

- For me, the black square of Fedor Smolov is also not an anti -war statement. How can you, when there was a buch, lay out only a black square (Fedor Smolov laid out a black square on February 24, before information on the mass killings of civilians in Buch. - Approx. "Cold") ?

For me, it looks like the position of people who say: “I am for peace” - and at the same time they support Putin. But I do not want to lower all the dogs on Smolov, because there are people who did not even do this. Well done, what he posted.

It was also very difficult for me to speak out when I gave a large anti-war interview of the BBC. I thought about it for a long time and figured out: “Why? Who am I afraid? At what point did I also become part of this obedient herd? " I did not sleep for a long time, worried - how and what I will say. As a result, I realized that I could not be silent, and yet I did it. It seems to me that many do not speak out because they cannot figure it out. They have problems with their “I” - they are blind, stained and clogged. Or they are just unscrupulous.

I do not want to share people: athletes, artists, journalists - there is no big difference. We all recently saw the artist Kucher, who came in an interview with Dudu - what kind of porridge in his head. And the athletes have the same thing: some are just fools, and other bastards who are content with their material benefits. It is more important for them to buy a bag from Dior than to save from the propaganda of people who live five thousand rubles a month and go to the toilet to the street. For this, probably, there should be human qualities, some kind of empathy. When the war began, I was haunted by a feeling of pitch darkness and horror. This is still a phonit, so I could not differently.

I have many friends who have a lot of subscribers in social networks. I wrote to them: “Why are we all silent? What is with us? " We considered ourselves a progressive young society, but in the end it turned out: “Oh, but I can’t, but I have a business, and suddenly what ...” Among my friends there were people who said: “Wait, I am now making a visa to France, here I will leave.” Well, nothing in the end. I have no other explanation, except that the dictatorship of everyone has become richer and for people some material things have become more important than being themselves.

War affected your relationship with Ukrainian athletes?

- No, because I immediately clearly identified my position. Last year, a girl from Ukraine played in my team for six months - she came to us in February or early March. She told how her relatives got out of their cities and how they were bombing. When I started talking to her, my tears flowed, I just got up in my throat, and there were no words. She saw my position perfectly, and she did not have hatred towards me. But the first conversation, of course, was quite complicated. For me, first of all.

In the summer you made a camming out. How difficult was it to do?

- Of course, simpler. Because before that I had already talked with my friends and with my mother. I was preparing for this. It’s just that the war further emphasized the need for this step and the realization that this must be done faster.

It was harder to speak out about the war, because everyone around was silent. It was difficult for me to understand how everything came to this and how I should react at that moment. It was, in a sense, the “severity of growing up”: take responsibility and begin to call a spade a spade, and not be like people around-athletes, bloggers, influons. It was difficult to collect all this in my head and convey to your audience.

And the camming out was in the kit-it was my sore subject, I always considered myself “not like that”. You yourself know what the situation we have, and all my childhood grandmas in the yard said: "Do you play football and look like a kid?" I myself understood that somehow I didn’t fit, but what's wrong with me? Yes, I went through a lot in terms of becoming myself as a person. But I waited a long time, I thought: “We probably have such people, when will anyone come out and declare this? Where is the leader of the opinions - an artist, an athlete, a serious and important person, or the same as me, a member of the national team, who is in sight? "

I really waited for this, it was my main topic for discussion in the last year before the war. But in the end, I realized that everything, enough to blame this responsibility for someone, I need to go forward, and there it would be already. That is, the war also revealed all these internal problems with itself. I became a completely different person, stopped being afraid and realized: when there is such a horror that I just want to yell from, all these supposedly taboo topics fade into the background. And do not shout to anyone, because, again, all in the hands of propagandons. I just became myself, I had fear, I spit on everything, because what happened in Ukraine did not give in to description.

You said you talked with my mother - for many this is a rather sad experience. How did you have an explanation?

- Mom accepted me, absolutely. At that time I already lived in Spain. She asked me: "Who are you living with?" - And I answer: "With my girlfriend." She smiled and said: “What, right? Damn, and I started to guess. " That is, it was an absolutely easy conversation.

We still have superior relations, we can chat on any topic, and she supports me in everything. I know that some have terrible situations in families when despotistical parents can refuse you or start yelling. But since childhood I had other relations with my parents. I never had the thought that mom can react negatively or say - everything, you are not my daughter. In this situation, I was more fortunate than many. It was rather a problem in my head - I had to admit it myself and pronounce it out loud. It was a story about the fact that you will grow in a scoop with the feeling that you will bring some kind of sodom.

Now, probably, this will still deteriorate because of the laws that are adopted in our country. And Volodin sits with an arrogant mug and says that we should be against LGBT propaganda, although, in my opinion, everyone knows that he also has to do with the LGBT community. But for Russian quilted jackets who watch TV and do not delve into anything else, he is a great fighter for our Russia. They have all the ideology on this: they say that they oppose the West, and they themselves buy real estate there. They say that NATO fights against Russia, but their children study in NATO countries. Or Navka writes that she is against men in rhythmic gymnastics. And then people like her calmly go to this “terrible geyrop” and buy dresses of geyev designers there. Here are their hypocritical and false ideology.

Recently, the PREDE-Night was in the NHL (a promotion of support for the LGBT community that the Flyers team held: hockey players reached the rainbow jersey for pre-match rolled up. There was no need to make any statements - you just put on a sweater and knead in it, and thus support a large number of people. The only player who did not wear this sweater was my fellow countryman, Yaroslavl Zaporov. I turned on an interview with his coach, who said: yes, he did not want to wear a sweater and explained that he could not be done by his faith. This is normal, everything is entitled to choose.

All the right in America were delighted, all the Redneks applauded him: “Here is a Russian man, why no one took this step before him, why only he defends our position? He is a handsome man, is not being conducted on this corporate garbage, as the devil's puppets do. ” I think: we must listen to what Zaporov himself says. And he says: "I did not want to put on this sweater because I am a believer." They ask him: "What is your faith?" He says: "Russian Orthodox."

Perhaps he thought: "God forbid, I will put this T -shirt with a rainbow flag, they will get it off and will not be called into the national team." Or maybe he is really superweight and for him this is a huge taboo. But it is also important what is happening in Russia now. And when they look in the West, they see the picture only on one side. And I understand that this happens against the background of the adoption of the Law on Gay Propaganda and this situation works for our propagandons. Therefore, athletes must be more responsible for their actions and for their words, so that there is no misunderstanding and so that someone does not overdose them in their own way.

Why are Russian athletes so homophobic? After all, both Navka and Korov have lived abroad for many years, they can accept other values.

- Apparently, they are simply washed by propaganda of moron. They were told that if there are same-sex marriages, then the demography would fall, but in fact she began to fall because of their “sacred war”. People do not delve into: they have a huge failure in education and absolutely fake narratives that are convenient for the state. They make hatred and promote these fakes. Only then, for the “fakes”, the state condemns Ilya Yashin, who told what all the respected world media tells.

I think that we were all mistaken, believing that our athletes, opinion leaders, are the same as in the West. We all sought to resemble foreign athletes, because, in addition to their main work on the field or on the court, they do a lot for others. And at some point it seemed that we were the same that we also have athletes for the wording “more than an athlete”. But the war showed us who they are actually. It was a fake image, athletes - fake people. And when a real nightmare happened, they all clenched their tail and said nothing.

And in Spain you had to deal with homophobia?

- In Spain, society is completely different. Even if you are a homophobic, you will never tell it openly, because you yourself will be ashamed. Just as it will be ashamed of racism. There are, of course, morons that can say something racist or homophobic. But there are fewer such, and society is strongly condemned by them.

This topic is openly discussed, and there is no that migratory hell such as a fiction that if you put up a photo [demonstrating] that you are gay, then you will infect people and everything will become gays. The gay parade in Madrid gathered so many people this year that the entire center was scored, and everyone simply enjoyed life.

If Russia were a normal state, and the organized crime group that seized power did not think about personal enrichment and dulling people, probably we would have everything differently. And there would be no homophobia, because another agenda would have come from the government. And I think that gays are not the last category of people on whom they opened the hunt in Russia. Everyone who has some freedom will probably be attacked. “What are you choosing, with whom to sleep? Or maybe you will want to choose the president tomorrow? "

It hurts you when subscribers from Russia write in the comments something like “How sorry for your mother” or “Bemo got into you”?

-I am rather upset due to the fact that there are these idiotic laws and nearby people who were washed by propaganda, who were robbed and who did not give a sufficient education. I understand that a person who has nothing but TV and Putin with his “sacred mission” can be inspired by anything.

Previously, I did not encounter homophobia in the forehead, because I have been closed all my life. They could tell me that I did not look feminine enough, or the coach [could] throw it that "it is all not from God and dirt." And when I made a camming out, I was no longer in Russia. And, of course, my personal messages tumbled homophobes who stubbornly told me that “you would have a good man” or “you have some kind of illness.” All these are the main techniques of homophobic.

Therefore, I am more offended by the fact that our society was in this state, and not that someone writes to me: it does not resonate with me. If I read this, I show my girlfriend, and we laugh.

I have been living with all sorts of such things for a long time. When I openly announced about ten years ago that I was a football player, morons immediately ran to me with comments: “Better my dishes”, “Women's football is complete shit” and so on. That is, already at the age of 18, I faced the wording that this is "not a female business."

But now the situation is better. If someone begins to write this, the same boys immediately come to him in the commentary and say: "You, the moron, where did you come from, from which one sat?" Therefore, I do not pay attention to it.

How, by the way, did you start playing football? Indeed, for girls in Russia, this is an uncharacteristic sport.

- The first time I played football when I was very small, still in the camp: there was simply nothing to do, I saw that the boys were playing and asked to kick the ball with them. У меня стало неплохо получаться, и мне очень понравилось. Потом я продолжила играть где-то во дворах, как все дети. А уже со временем в Ярославле появилась любительская женская команда. Меня туда позвали, и с этой любительской командой мы поехали на соревнования, где меня заметила команда из училища олимпийского резерва в Звенигороде — они пригласили меня к себе. Мама меня сначала не отпустила, потому что я училась в восьмом классе, и она сказала: давай ты сначала сдашь ГИА (государственная итоговая аттестация, экзамены после девятого класса. — Прим. «Холода») и поедешь туда уже на 10-й и 11-й класс. Так и произошло: мы жили в Звенигороде в училище и играли в футбол, нас кормили-одевали и возили в обычную школу.

Что вы почувствовали, когда вас пригласили играть в Испанию?

— Меня еще в 19 лет звали в «Пари Сен-Жермен», а я только полгода-год как подписала контракт с «Чертаново». Но тогда мама сказала: «Наверное, еще рановато, давай подумаем». И я решила еще поиграть в Москве и ответила уже на следующее предложение — от «Валенсии». Мне было 22 года, и я уехала осознанно.

Я, естественно, офигела от того, как классно устроен женский футбол в Испании. Инфраструктура тут более развитая, [чем в России,] условия для тренировок и восстановления намного лучше, побольше зарплата. У нас в Барселоне женской команде дают играть на стадионе «Камп Ноу», который является основным у мужской команды, и на женский футбол ходят 90 тысяч человек. Но у меня не было ощущения, что я уезжаю навсегда. Я думала, что подписала контракт на два года, а потом вернусь в Россию.

Но я к футболу отношусь в первую очередь как к работе. Мне поступают предложения, и, если они меня устраивают, я еду — у меня нет зацикленности на каком-то определенном месте, и мне абсолютно все равно, где я буду завтра играть, — хоть в Китае. И даже где-то два года назад, когда у меня закончился контракт в Севилье, я была готова вернуться в Москву. Я даже соскучилась по России и вела переговоры с российскими клубами.

К счастью, я все-таки не перешла в российский клуб, потому что буквально через год жизнь абсолютно перевернулась. Я из девочки-футболистки, которая сидела на «Матч ТВ» и рассуждала о чем-то типа «Мы русские, с нами Бог, и нам любые трудности по плечу», не вникая в политику и проблемы допинга, превратилась в другого человека. Когда поперли расследования ФБК, случилось отравление Навального, пришлось очень сильно пересмотреть взгляды. Грубо говоря, я вылезла из своего комфортного спортивного пузыря и поняла, что не вся жизнь крутится вокруг футбола, денег и увеселительных мероприятий.

То есть это Навальный и ФБК превратили вас в оппозиционерку?

— И они тоже. Мне кажется, они делают огромную работу и многим людям открыли глаза. И то, как Путин сейчас относится к Навальному, как он над ним издевается, как он его убивает, доказывает, что за Навальным огромная сила. И мне по-человечески больно смотреть на ШИЗО, в которых он сидит. Это, конечно, полный пиздец. Это еще раз доказывает, что у Путина с ним личные счеты.

Но на меня повлияла не только команда Навального. В России много оппозиционных политиков и журналистов, интервью которых доступны каждому. Самый яркий — Немцов, к убийству которого причастно государство. Пару-тройку лет назад я смотрела его высказывания в интернете и думала: «Это так радикально». Он говорил, что Путин ебнутый, что все будет хуево, а нам казалось: да ладно, ну, может, не все так плохо. Но сейчас я смотрю на это вместе с миллионами людей и думаю: блин, они это все знали.

Я понимаю, что в России огромное количество людей страдает, там огромная бедность, коррупция. В целом я рада, что осталась в Испании, и я не считаю, что должна молчать. Мне кажется, что в этом моя двойная ответственность: если я живу за границей, то должна говорить. И тысячи людей заваливают мне директ с благодарностями, пишут: «Спасибо, что ты высказываешься, у меня тоже есть такая потребность, но я боюсь. Я читаю твои заявления и полностью с тобой солидарен, мне становится легче». Я постоянно получаю респект за то, что не боюсь и продолжаю гнуть свою линию.

Почему для вас так важно нести эту миссию?

— Мне очень близка позиция, что спортсмен, у которого есть хоть какая-то аудитория, должен жить не только для себя. Он должен просвещать свое комьюнити более просвещенным. Потому что не все люди имеют такое счастье — родиться и быть предрасположенным к какому-то виду спорта, не всем везет заниматься той работой, которая им нравится, не всем повезло с понимающими родителями. И мне кажется, если у нас есть какие-то проблемы, общество нас не должно добивать. Наоборот, надо в окружающем мире распространять любовь и создавать условия для людей, которым не так повезло. Чтобы им было комфортно жить, чтобы они не боялись быть собой, чтобы они понимали, что каждая жизнь важна, что ты можешь как угодно выглядеть и кого угодно любить.

Я много сижу в тиктоке, мониторю социальные сети. И у меня есть младший брат, которому сейчас 19 лет. Мне кажется, наше молодое поколение, которое растет после нас, гораздо менее гомофобно. Если моим ровесникам Путин смог навязать гомофобную повестку, то для малых, которым сейчас 18–19, это такой кринж, они над этим смеются. Они суперсвободны, любят кого захотят и выглядят как захотят. Я думаю, что с ними эта пропаганда не прокатит. И мне хотелось бы, чтобы так же было и про войну: чтобы они верили только фактам и только себе, общались с ровесниками из Украины и поняли, что Путин — старый мудак и он не может им рассказывать какие-то бредни.

В « списке Месси » вы были единственной девушкой из 10 футболистов. Это не говорит о том, что проблемы гендерного неравенства существуют и в Европе?

— Насколько я помню, это была рекламная кампания бутс Messi 15.1 от adidas. У меня тогда была хорошая статистика — лучшая в России, причем это был молодежный рейтинг, и мне повезло, что я подходила туда по возрасту. Это был проект года этак 2015-го, и я, наоборот, отношу его к разряду положительных, потому что еще до всех остальных спортивных компаний, которые стали активно топить за женщин, adidas не побоялся и привлек меня в такую большую рекламную кампанию. Все-таки футбол всегда был мужским видом спорта: в него играли в большинстве своем мужчины, и смотрели тоже.

Другой вопрос, что никто и нигде в таких ситуациях не прыгает с места в карьер. Аdidas была первопроходцем, а сейчас уже ни у кого не вызывает вопросов, что у женщин-футболисток есть огромные рекламные кампании с бутсами и женский футбол находится совершенно на другом месте в мире. Последний чемпионат Европы по женскому футболу проходил [в том числе] на стадионе Уэмбли в Великобритании — там был полный солдаут задолго до финального матча. Понимаете, как все поменялось? Десять лет назад мне писали в комментариях: «Иди на кухню», а сейчас мы всерьез обсуждаем: а почему тогда в списке была только одна девочка?

Время абсолютно поменялось, оно не стоит на месте. Некоторые, типа Путина, хотят его заморозить. Они думают, что у них все получится. Но я уверена, что время все расставит по своим местам. Уйдут старые лидеры, старые правила, старые предрассудки, старые лейблы. Мы существуем для того, чтобы их разрушать и создавать новые тенденции, где люди живут свободно — без предрассудков, гендерных рамок и чьих-то устаревших суждений.