"I have to make excuses over and over again because I was in prison"

A big interview with the policy of Ilya Yashin from the colony

Four months ago, the Meshchansky District Court sentenced the politician Ilya Yashin to the eight and a half years of the colony in the case of the Fakes about the Russian army. While in conclusion, Yashin continues to oppose the war and personally Vladimir Putin. The editor of the Cold Maxim conspiracies wrote to Yashin a letter and asked him to answer questions about the war, prison, cellmates, Russia and Alexei Navalny.

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How do you feel? And physically and psychologically?

- I'm fine. It is clear that the prison has not made anyone healthier and this is a big stress for the body, but I try not to launch myself and so far I cope. To maintain physical shape, you need at least some power loads. In a walking courtyard, I wind circles for an hour a day and pull up on the horizontal bar. Sometimes it is possible to get into the prison gym and shake the bar with dumbbells. So I feel normally normal, although, of course, there is very not enough fresh air and full -fledged walks in nature.

I am also happy that before the arrest I managed to take a course at the dentist, since it is almost impossible to treat teeth in prison. If you meet here a person who has been sitting for more than three years, then almost certainly he does not have half of his teeth. Vision also quickly sits down in many, the old sores are aggravated.

But the main thing, undoubtedly, maintain a healthy psyche. The prison always stimulates depression and apathy. If you begin to regret yourself, then very quickly you slide into an emotional pit, from which it is difficult to get out. Therefore, it is critical of keeping yourself in good shape, keep in touch with loved ones, read, write letters and texts, come up with some business, visualize the image of the future in the head. All this is not given so easily, but it is objectively easier for me than many prisoners. After all, firstly, I am sitting for what I sincerely believe in. And secondly, I get great public support, which gives strength greatly.

What is the most difficult in prison?

- Personally, I am the most difficult to give social isolation. I am used to an active life, for new acquaintances, for guests in my kitchen, for numerous meetings. Now, my circle of communication is limited by the camera, the prison “assembly” (the place where those who arrived from other prisons are gathered, as well as those who are sent to court or to the stage. - approx. “Cold”) , lawyers, letters and rare dates with parents through glass. I will not be cunning: it's difficult. The tightness of the camera, the inability to take a walk with a girlfriend, call loved ones - all this oppresses.

Well, I try to somehow find a way out of this isolation, what can I do. I often talk with other prisoners, write down some interesting stories that I hear; It happens that I even make sketches. People, by the way, willingly share their stories, and I am a grateful listener. And I admit, I really became interested in these prison stories, in which there is everything: drama, tragedy, love, hatred, broken fate, and overcoming myself. Perhaps someday my notes will turn into a book.

Do you read in prison yourself? What exactly?

- I read a lot. First of all, he swallowed the book of Viktor Franca, an Austrian psychologist who passed the Nazi camps. He gives very reasonable and practical advice on how to survive in captivity, not to go crazy and keep himself. Really useful work.

With great pleasure, I read the book of Mikhail Fishman "The successor". This is a good story about the life of Boris Nemtsov - I recommend it to everyone. He read the “Echelon on Samarkand” [Guzeli] Yakhina and the “Academy” [Isaka] Azimov, to which his hands did not reach for many years. Now I read the novel by Henri Sharir “Moths”, and I am also waiting for a new book by Bernhard Shlink “Granddaughter”, which will soon be sent to me. Literature helps a lot in prison.

What are the prisoners about Russia, about Putin, about the war?

- Among prisoners, you rarely meet those who are delighted with power. Many have experienced the arbitrariness of security forces and lawlessness in the courts. No one here has illusions about our state. But few people admit sharp statements regarding the authorities: people are afraid to openly say what they think. It would seem what to be afraid? You are still in prison. But in each chamber, in each corridor, on each “assembly”, DVRs are installed. There are enough stories when the prisoners initiated new criminal cases for the words spoken in prison. For this, there is enough video recordings and reports of an employee.

There is still enough talk about politics, although the language is often used. For example, criticizing Putin, use the synonyms of “grandfather” or “this” - with a characteristic movement of the finger up. Someone speaks in a whisper, someone-hints.

You will be surprised, but former officials and security officials who have fallen in jail are most radically configured. In general, according to the law, former “employees” and ordinary prisoners are contained separately, but we still cross the “assemblies” and in the autosaks, so there is an opportunity to chat.

Here I am generals, and Feesbashnikov, and deployers met. Strange, of course, feelings when some arrested general whispers in your ear that he "never voted in his life for the" Oserosov "and that" until they put it forward, nothing will improve in the country. "

And what are the prisoners about you?

- The attitude is different. Usually people are just interested in: many in the wild watched my videos and streams, read social networks. Often there are supporters and subscribers. Chechens are especially warmly welcomed, which thank you telling the truth about Kadyrov.

At first, I admit, I was strained when Caucasians with long beards approached the “assembly” and asked: “Are you Yashin?” But this issue has always been followed by hugs and words of gratitude. There are, of course, puzzled questions, misunderstanding: why didn’t you leave? Why take it like that? Someone asks to share forecasts regarding war and economic situation. But what is indicative, for all the time I have never encountered aggression.

And the employees of the FSIN, the overseers - how do relations with them develop?

- Absolutely exactly. Moreover, for me from the first days it became a revelation, how many, it turns out, I have such as me, sympathizing with the ordinary security forces. I heard the words of support from both convoy and bailiffs much more often than expected.

On the other hand, what is there to be surprised? Their service is penny salaries, wild processing, humiliation from the authorities. And everyone is afraid that Putin will announce a new mobilization, depriving the armor of law enforcement agencies.

Of course, I asked what was holding these people in the system. They usually answer sighs and stories about how difficult it is to find a job. And then at least some stability. And you know, humanly, I understand all this and imbued. But nevertheless, every time during such conversations, lines from the old song “Nautilus” pop up in my head: “The poor pray, pray that their poverty is guaranteed.”

In general, you are sitting “like everyone else” or an attitude towards you worse than to others? Or maybe, on the contrary, better?

- I am sitting on a common basis. As they say here, "in the human mass." But they control me more, of course. I know, for example, that there is a categorical indication from above in no case to allow me to have an illegal phone. Sometimes, before meeting with a lawyer, they are especially carefully searched for me, I am examined literally to my panties. At the same time, I did not notice any zeal and sadism in the actions of the jailers. Everything is within the framework of the relative norm. Well, at least for now.

In the last word in court, you said that you do not regret anything. Nothing has changed?

“I have nothing to regret.” I am in harmony with conscience, I am convinced of my own right and remained faithful to my principles. I am supported by many people, my texts and words are in demand in society. Well, yes, household discomfort oppresses, there is a longing for the house, I miss relatives. However, I try to perceive what is happening philosophically. Unfortunately, the road from the dictatorship to freedom often lies through the prison, and there are many historical examples. This path must be followed with dignity.

Then you said: "It is better to spend 10 years behind bars, remaining an honest person than to silently burn with shame from what is happening on your name." But there are other options - for example, to leave and fight remotely.

- I do not know how to defeat Putin remotely. Suppose that last spring I would have fled somewhere to Europe, began to lead streams there, write articles, to travel to the forums of “good Russians” ... But, firstly, without me there are enough those who did just that, and secondly, what would be the political weight of my word abroad? After all, the authorities always speculates on this topic: "Foreign agents escaped to their owners, tore off in touch with Russia." Well, let's honestly admit: a significant part of society accepts these arguments, and I am not ready to ignore it.

Therefore, by the way, the Kremlin prefers to see their critics with emigrants, and not political prisoners. Before planting, opposition politicians are squeezed out of the country with all their might. They plant if you rest and categorically refuse to leave.

In understanding the authorities, the emigration deprives you of moral superiority and leads to political bankruptcy. Therefore, Navalny was released abroad for treatment - they were sure that they would be afraid to go back. Therefore, Roizman was not closed to a pre -trial detention center, but they are kept under a “prohibition of certain actions”, clearly pushing him to escape. Therefore, for four months before the arrest they threatened, hinted and directly said that they had to leave.

People who remain in Russia, despite the threat of prison, tear the Kremlin templates and become a problem for the authorities.

You say that you can fight at a safe distance from the security forces. But did I stop the fight when I was in prison? Am I silent? Does my vote against war and against the dictatorship do not sound because of the grate? And it seems to me that the political weight of my prison texts and my speeches from the tribune is still noticeably more than if I said the same from the Parisian cafe. Just because I proved that I am ready to answer for my words and pay a very high price for them.

For many, you are an example of a bold and fundamental policy. But now, it turns out, not the most motivating example. If you opposed the authorities in Russia, you will certainly sit down.

- Surprisingly, of course, that over and over again I have to make excuses for the fact that I was in prison. It does not seem to you that if an innocent person was behind bars, then it is still worth not this person to condemn, but those who illegally planted him? Understand: my choice was not a prison, I was not eager for here. My choice was my country, where I stayed with my people. Yes, on my example, society saw that the opposition are planted. But what is the news here? I’ll tell you more: the opposition is also killed. Here is an example of Nemtsov. I did not create a system where criticism of power is equivalent to a prison or grave. It was created by Vladimir Putin. I opposed this system all my conscious life and continue to do this, despite the arrest.

Your reproach about the demotivation of people is difficult for me to comment. Behind the bars, I try to behave with dignity, I do not noy and do not complain about anything. I talk about other political prisoners that I meet here, and try to help them. I urge you to stop the war as loudly as I can. I stand up for my compatriots in speakers for American newspapers. In my understanding, the arrested oppositionist must motivate his supporters with loyalty to principles, stamina and worthy behavior in captivity. It turns out I have it or not - it is not for me to judge. But I try.

Your friend Maxim Reznik, who wrote a column on the day of your sentence, told me that he was ashamed that he was in Europe and safe, and you are in prison. What can you answer him?

- Maxim Reznik is a smart, decent man and, like any St. Petersburg intellectual, prone to reflection. He has nothing to be ashamed of, because he was not silent, but openly, harshly opposed a criminal war with Ukraine. And continues to do it. So his conscience is clear.

But I think that if I left, and not sat down, now I was tormented and I would have plagued myself in the same way as Max. Probably psychologically easier for me than him. I will not hide that the understanding of this also influenced my decision to stay in Russia.

Nevertheless, all our emigrants I want to say that life continues. Now is definitely not the time for despondency and apathy. Everyone must pull themselves together and do everything in his power, so that the war ends as soon as possible, and Putin leaves.

How do you react when your principality is explained as follows: “Yashin wanted to be like a bulk and therefore went to prison”?

- We have been familiar with Navalny since 2001 and ate more than one pood of salt together. All these years he helped me, and I supported him. Alexei is my friend and ally, whose fate I sincerely worry.

But to be honest, would you like to be the main opposition politician of Russia? That is, to be more popular than Navalny?

- Talking about our competition with him is at least strange. Why compete? For a place in a prison cell? Or for a portion of "beginner"? There are no "main" opposition politicians now. There are people who resist thieves and killers who seized power in Russia. Everyone does this to the best of their strength and personal courage.

Now in Russia, in spite of everything, a huge number of grassroots, horizontal, anti -war projects appear. Many Russians continue to come out with anti-war protests (about 20 thousand detained from the beginning of the war), independent media reconfigurations-in general, people somehow resist. Moreover, at large - it doesn’t matter, in Russia or beyond - there are no politicians who would unite these people. Do you agree with this? If so - why is this happening?

- In fact, you ask why so few popular opposition politicians are free. But the answer is obvious: because they are planted. However, I do not consider the situation hopeless. I believe that the opposition and anti -war movement is now worth betting not on leadership, but on the development of horizontal connections, on self -government and collective action mechanisms. We must become such a movement that cannot be decapitated and destroyed by planting or poisoning two or three leaders.

The movement should have many persons, a lot of information resources both in Russia and beyond, a wide network of supporters with autonomous cells throughout the country. It is much more difficult to eliminate such a structure to security forces than to disperse the classic party with the chairman and the political council. But in fact, the Russian opposition is developing in this direction; The fact that in Russia, despite the rink of repressions, the lower resistance that you are talking about continuing is the result of this trend.

Do you think the West behaves correctly in relation to Russia?

- I see that Western leaders often do not distinguish between the Kremlin regime and Russian society, perceiving Putin and people as a whole. I see it a serious mistake. Such a policy helps Putin hide behind the people, which he actually took hostage, helps him shift responsibility for his military aggression to people. Although for the people, the war, to put it mildly, was a surprise. The authorities did not consult with society whether to start invasion of Ukraine. This was Putin's personal decision.

Abroad, Russians are accused of raising the uprising, but they ignore the fact that we, in fact, have a real military dictatorship here. People are planted for likes in social networks, for telephone conversations, in a minute of silence on the victims of the bombing.

In Ukraine, a regular and well -armed army at the cost of large losses with varying success restrains the onslaught of Putin forces. Do you expect that ordinary teachers, students and offices will run out in Moscow Square and throw a dictator? This is ridiculous.

It seems to me that the West should act more flexibly and find an ally in the Russian people. Think about how to help people here get rid of a crazy ruler, and not to brand them endlessly. It would be reasonable and far -sighted.

What do you think about the new stage of relations between Russia and China? You said that Russian federal television channels show in the colony, you probably saw how the arrival of Xi Jinping was covered there.

- I am seriously worried about the so -called eastern U -turn of Russia. The Kremlin is tearing trade relations and economic relations that have brought our country a huge benefit for decades. A powerful blow to the Russian economy, science, and culture has been inflicted. And what do we get in return? Putin presents Russia on a saucer Comrade Si and puts it in political and economic dependence on China.

In television, pathos tell about the "equal alliance of two great powers." In fact, we become not even a younger partner, but a raw materials appendage, a Chinese gas station. Oil and gas with a huge discount, forest and coal in cheap, Far Eastern lands - we simply enrich China with its natural resources, receiving a favorable smiles and visiting visitors.

I regard Putin’s actions as a betrayal of the national interests of Russia. In the future, we have to try hard to protect the country from growing Chinese expansion.

It does not seem to you that now not only Russia, but the whole world is experiencing a global crisis - more and more conflicts, wars, threats?

— Да уж, до «‎конца истории»‎, о котором рассуждал философ Фрэнсис Фукуяма, похоже, еще далеко (теория «‎конца истории» утверждает, что распространение либеральной демократии свидетельствует о финале социокультурной эволюции человечества, окончании идеологических противостояний, глобальных революций и войн, но вместе с ними — искусства и философии. — Прим. «‎Холода»)‎. Казалось бы, у человечества есть все для спокойного и устойчивого развития. Мир открыт, технологии стремительно развиваются, жизнь становится все более удобной. What to do? Живите счастливо, зарабатывайте, путешествуйте, стремитесь к освоению космоса.

Но, видимо, человечеству еще предстоит пройти определенный период взросления. И хочется верить, что в ходе этого взросления мы не уничтожим себя и планету очередной глобальной войной.

Какая из политических или общественных новостей поразила вас больше всего за девять месяцев заключения?

— Планка безумия сейчас поднята так высоко, что по-настоящему удивляться уже сложно, мы ко всему привыкли. Но все же меня поразила история школьницы Маши Москалевой из города Ефремова, которая нарисовала на уроке изо флаги России и Украины с призывом к миру и которую после этого отправили в приют, а ее отца арестовали.

С моей точки зрения, это фашистская практика и какой-то милитаристский угар. Очень хочется посмотреть в глаза учителю и директору школы, сдавшим ребенка полиции. И очень сочувствую девочке и ее папе, которых государство оторвало друг от друга.

Каким вы в целом видите политическое будущее России?

— России предстоит пройти долгий и сложный путь, чтобы выбраться из нынешней ямы. Путин оставит после себя мрачное наследие: разрушенную экономику, международную изоляцию, запредельную коррупцию и деградировавшие государственные институты. К этому добавятся гнетущая атмосфера общественного раскола и десятки тысяч людей, которые вернутся с фронта с травмированной психикой. Нас ждет смутное время. Но все же я верю, что мы справимся.

Эпоха Путина должна наконец научить нас тому, что нельзя доверять всю власть одному человеку. Самодержавие всегда ведет к обесцениванию человеческой жизни, самодурство вождей всегда оборачивается репрессиями и войнами. Нам придется буквально перезапускать свою страну, принимать новую конституцию, создавать с нуля государственные и общественные институты, развивать федерализм и местное самоуправление, учиться контролировать власть и силовиков.

Это большой вызов и национальная идея — стать современной цивилизованной страной, где главной ценностью является человек, его жизнь и развитие. Стать страной, которую все уважают, а не боятся.

За счет чего Россия сможет стать такой?

— Мой источник оптимизма — люди. Кто бы что ни говорил про наш народ, я вижу, сколько вокруг хороших, искренних и неравнодушных людей. Мне в тюрьму пришло уже почти 15 тысяч писем со словами поддержки и благодарности. Это невероятно мотивирует и воодушевляет.

Еще мотивирует твердая убежденность в том, что правда на моей стороне. А сила, как известно, в правде. Честно: я еще никогда не чувствовал себя таким сильным, как сейчас.

Моя вера в будущее основана, помимо прочего, на историческом опыте нашей цивилизации. Как ни крути, но человечество развивается поступательно — от мрака к свету. Медленно, болезненно, но бесправие и рабство уступают место гуманизму и справедливости. Там, где вчера людей сжигали в печах, сегодня торжествуют право и уважение к личности. Мракобесие сопротивляется, но постепенно перестает быть нормой. Диктаторы становятся изгоями, их человеконенавистнические идеи отправляются на свалку истории.

По сути, речь идет о глобальном противостоянии прогресса и мракобесия. И я горжусь тем, что вношу в него свой вклад.

Последний вопрос: что вы хотите сказать своим сторонникам и оппонентам, которые прочитают это интервью?

— Сторонникам я хочу сказать, что сейчас очень важно быть терпимее друг к другу. Не конфликтовать по мелочам, прощать слабость, поддерживать тех, кто в этом нуждается, проявлять солидарность. Зло слабее нас, но оно добивается успехов, потому что лучше организовано. Мы должны сфокусироваться на главном — на том, чтобы остановить войну и поменять Россию. А споры и дрязги оставим на потом.

Оппонентам же я пожелаю просто избавиться от застилающей глаза ненависти. Помните, что насилие порождает насилие. Помните, что многие из тех, кто радовался началу массовых репрессий в 1930-х годах, вскоре сами отправились на плаху со словами: «Товарищ Сталин, произошла чудовищная ошибка». ‎

Для этой власти, ребята, вы такой же мусор, как и мы все. Но если нас она бросает в тюрьмы и в изгнание, то вас просто гонят на убой. Цените свою и чужую жизнь. Нет в этом мире ничего важнее и ценнее человеческой жизни.