"The war should return to where it came from"

The leader of the independent Ichkeria Ahmed Zakaev - about the war of the Chechens on the side of Ukraine against Kadyrov and Putin

Chechen opponents of the regime of Vladimir Putin and Ramzan Kadyrov help Ukraine in the war with Russia, a significant part - right on the battlefield. Their leader is Ahmed Zakaev, in the past - the Chechen brigade general. He participated in both wars for the independence of the republic, and now he heads the government of the self -proclaimed Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in exile. "Cold" talked with Zakayev about what the government is in exile and how it works, about the participation of the Chechen military on the Armed Forces of Ukraine and about the intention to achieve the independence of the entire Caucasian region.

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Chechen Republic Ichkeria

In 1991, in Chechnya, Johar Dudaev was elected by the president of the republic in the elections organized by the national congress of the Chechen people (OKCHN). Soon after, Dudaev proclaimed the independence of the Chechen Republic from the Russian Federation.

Despite the fact that in more than 10 countries there were representatives of Ichkeria, the independence of the republic was not recognized as any state - a member of the UN. The Russian leadership also did not recognize the independence of Ichkeria. In 1993, the Kremlin proposed a ChRI to join in Russia with special status and rights to autonomy. The authorities of the republic abandoned such a proposal, which led to an increase in tension between Russian President Boris Yeltsin and the Chechen government.

At the end of 1994, the Russian intelligence services provoked an intra -Chergery armed conflict, which the Kremlin considered the occasion to begin a military operation against the Chechen Republic. On December 31, 1994, the assault on Grozny began. The first Chechen war continued until August 1996. As a truce on August 31, 1996, the parties signed the Khasavyurt agreements. The result of the war was the consent of Russia with the independent existence of Chechnya, although Moscow did not officially recognize its independence. The question of the status of the Chechen Republic was postponed until 2001.

In September 1999, a series of large terrorist attacks in residential buildings occurred in Moscow, Buinaksk and Volgodonsk. The Kremlin accused the terrorist attacks of Chechen separatists. However, in the official version of the prosecution, many inconsistencies were discovered, independent investigators talked about the possible involvement of the FSB in the explosions of the houses so that there was a reason to enter Chechnya. On September 30, 1999, Russian troops entered the territory of Chechnya: this began the Second Chechen War, which the Russian government officially called the "counter -terrorist operation." This time, active hostilities ended relatively quickly: already in the summer of 2000, Russian President Vladimir Putin appointed Akhmat Kadyrov (father of Ramzan Kadyrov) by the head of the pro -Russian administration.

The Chechens, who did not recognize joining Russia, went beyond the borders of the republic. Ahmed Zakaev became the ideologist of the creation of the Government of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in exile, one of the main tasks of which was integration into the European Union. In 2007, supporters of the independence of Ichkeria announced the creation of the government in exile, from that moment the Prime Minister of the Government of the self-proclaimed ChRI became the former brigade General Ahmed Zakaev. The Prime Minister Zakaev still remains in the position of Prime Minister, he also heads the State Committee for the Defense of the ChRI.

Proponents of the ChRI have consistently opposed the actions of the Russian government, since 2014 several divisions consisting of Chechens are fighting on the side of Ukraine. After a full -scale invasion, the number of Chechens fighting on the side of Ukraine increased significantly. According to statements , the Ichkeria government seeks to help Ukraine win the war with Russia, and later - to achieve the de -Ukrainian republic.

Chechens fighting on the side of the Armed Forces

What is the task of the Chechen divisions? On the one hand, they probably must obey the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but on the other, these are your units. What do you think should they strive for?

- The Ukrainian military is led by the international legion. This is a war, there can be no amateur performances. The Chechens are sure to agree with all their actions with the Armed Forces. Today, our military perform combat missions in the occupied territories in Ukraine. Subsequently, these same units can be redirected to the Chechen Republic for its subsequent de -Ukrainian. We strive for this.

On July 18, news appeared that it was the Chechen division that broke into the Belgorod region from Ukraine. Were there any other such operations?

- The military leadership of Ukraine should talk about this, I cannot comment on it. But I can confirm that the Chechen unit is part of the international legion, which is fighting on the side of the Armed Forces.

In an interview, you said that the task of the current stage of the war is to transfer military operations to the territory of Russia. Including with the help of Chechen divisions. Do you consider military operations, for example, in the Belgorod region, where civilians live and now suffer from shelling, a legitimate military task?

- Yes, I consider military units, warehouses, logistics points and so on absolutely legitimate goals. I do not mean the civilian population or people who are not involved in the war. But at the same time, I am absolutely sure that to stop the war, the Russians themselves must feel what it is. Not on TV, but with your own eyes. The war should return to where it came from. And she left Russia. If the Kremlin does not understand differently, then we will seek the transfer of hostilities to the territory of Russia, [with the help of] including our units. If today we will not stop this inhuman monster who devours everything in its path, we will never become free and will never de -enable the Chechen Republic.

How many Chechens are in the ranks of the Ukrainian army now? What are these structural units?

- Since 2014, two volunteer groups have been in Ukraine: the Sheikh Mansur battalion and the Johar Dudaev battalion. On February 25, 2022, the CRI government held a meeting, and we decided to form battalions and send our volunteers from around the world to Ukraine. Now, fighting on the Ukrainian side, we are reviving the Chechen army, which was destroyed. I can’t say how many people are in Ukraine (according to Politico, on the APU side, from 150 to 200 Chechen volunteers are fighting. At the same time, the vice-minister of the ChRI government in exile, Said-Emin Ibrahimov, spoke about “thousands of Chechens” who have been defending the independence of Ukraine along with Ukrainians since 2014-approx. “Cold”) .

War is a very expensive thing. What money do Chechen divisions in Ukraine are fighting for?

- All our units are on the satisfaction of Ukraine and the Ukrainian government, like the entire international legion as a whole.

There are now Chechens in the Russian army. It turns out that your units are fighting literally against the same Chechens? There is no contradiction for you?

- In today's Chechnya there are two different approaches to the formation of military units. The Akhmat detachment is formed from among men from the entire post -Soviet space - promises of more salaries than the average in the country. They are also sent to the residents of Chechnya, disloyal to the regime, people who could potentially come out with protests, or those who “guilty” before Kadyrov’s regime (the human rights activists reported on the forced sending “guilty” . - approx. “Cold”) . As a punishment, they are sent to war. Such prefabricated detachments, which are called "Chechen volunteers."

A completely different thing is the military, which Kadyrov contains to ensure his personal safety and the safety of his family. They suffered heavy losses at the very beginning of a full -scale invasion. After those battles, the Kadyrovtsy no longer participated on the front line, they are now called the Tiktok-Vali.

Did your nephews also forced to participate in hostilities as part of the so -called volunteer units?

- Yes, my nephews were stolen. One was released, and the other was sent to Ukraine. This is a middle -aged person, he had problems with vision and with the spine. But they put a military ammunition on him and sent there.

Is there any ethical dilemma for you: the Chechen troops, who are fighting on the side of the Armed Forces, can kill (and they, in fact, have such a task) including literally your relatives? And for sure relatives of other people, disloyal, with the opposition Kadyrov’s views, also there.

- We have never encountered the advanced with the Chechens in this war, this question did not even stand before us. The Kadyrovites, who are sent here, are at the second or third line. And those with whom we came across were defeated either with the help of artillery or by air. None of our units entered into battle with them - neither in Bakhmut, nor in the Kherson region, nor in Zaporozhye.

But still, how do you solve this problem for yourself-can your units kill your own nephew?

- This is the Putin and Kadyrovsky sadism. They deliberately use relatives to put pressure on us. Last week, they shot my nephew on the video, where he says that he is in Ukraine and knows that I am here too, and at the end he reproaches me. But I know how he was there, he is forced to do all this.

Putin strives to destroy our society from the inside, they are trying to demoralize us, our nation. But they will not succeed. We maintain close ties with people, our relatives who are under Russian occupation, and we will continue to maintain these ties.

The government is exile

Tell us what such a government is in exile, why it exists and how your work is built.

- The ministers of our republic live in different countries: I am on an ongoing basis in London, the Minister of Foreign Affairs in Brussels, the Minister of Economics in Vilnius, other ministers live and work in Berlin, Paris. We built work in the online format even before it spread in 2020 due to the pandemic of coronavirus. In the 2000s, we were criticized and ridiculed, they say, what kind of online government is this, and now all international institutions work on the same principle by which we have been working for 20 years. One, two times a month, we have been holding full-time conferences, and we solve the main issues online.

As for the inhabitants of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria (CRI), around the world, outside the territory of the Chechen Republic [as part of the Russian Federation], about 500 thousand Chechens live, 300 thousand of them in the European Union (according to 2020, it was known about 200 thousand Chechens living in Europe. - approx. "Cold" ). We give out civil passports of the ChRI. Our citizens at the same time are citizens of other countries, this does not contradict either our legislation or the position of other countries to have double or triple citizenship. The issuance of CRI passports for us is a purely political action, a symbol that we have not lost hope and continue the struggle for our independence.

Before the full -scale invasion of Russia, our government dealt exclusively by political issues: we participated in the PACE and the European Parliament sessions, filed lawsuers against war criminals during the Chechen wars in the Hague, tried to achieve the international tribunal. After February 24, 2022, a meeting of the State Committee on the Defrol of the ChRI began to form an armed wing of our government. The Minister of Defense of the CRI on an ongoing basis is now in Ukraine and is engaged in the revival of the Armed Forces of the ChRI for further struggle for independence.

How does your government interact with citizens and receives feedback from them? Usually, elections are used for this, some kind of public discussion, but how does it work in ChRI?

- The task of governments as a whole is to solve social problems, in addition to issues of protection, defense and security. We lost the first part, did not manage to protect our country: we did not have enough strength, funds, or international support to confront Russian aggression. For more than 15 years, we waged an armed struggle for independence directly in the republic, but our resource is exhausted, then we decided to switch only to political work and conduct it from abroad.

We can contact the residents remaining in the republic: there can be no direct interaction, for this Chechen security officials can simply kill.

The question was more about something else: CRI citizens left the territory of the republic 15–20 years ago, they were probably accustomed to living in other countries, got a job, gave children to kindergartens and schools. Are you sure these people will want to return to the territory of Chechnya?

- Indeed, many CRI citizens managed to obtain citizenship of those countries where they live. We do not set such a task that they must return. But we are saying that we were part of Europe and today unilaterally we integrated into the European Union. Chechens, who have citizenship in the EU today, is a powerful potential for us in the future.

I wanted to talk about why you are sure that it is necessary to restore the independence of the republic. How do you know that citizens really want it?

- The Chechens have historically incredible attachment to the ground. Today, almost every family who lives abroad, calls out online every evening and drinks tea with its relatives who remain in the republic. Working here, our citizens are building houses in Chechnya. We know for sure that the occupation regime established by Putin is hated by the Chechens. Freedom for Chechens is the basis of life, mentality, ideology. As soon as the situation in the Kremlin begins to stagger, the Chechens will immediately demonstrate their desire to achieve independence, as they demonstrated this in the 90s.

Today, when the Russian government began to send Chechens as cannon fodder to Ukraine, it became clear to everyone that the propaganda narrative about the salvation of Chechens by Russian imperialists was broken. Now the Chechens understand that we have no other option in order to preserve as a nation, except to become a subject of international law and have their own state. Those forces that we focus in Ukraine today, a military component, will be a core for preventing riots in Chechnya in the future.

What form of statehood do you strive for if the Chechen Republic acquires independence from Russia?

- This will be decided by the people of Chechnya. Now we do not break the head over this. We have a constitution adopted in 1992. Of course, there will be some changes, but it will not be possible to decide and not the CRI government, the Chechen people will decide.

Personally, I believe that the Caucasian Confederation should be created - the Unified State Education of the Republics of the Caucasus while maintaining the sovereignty of each of them separately. I think that it should be interesting to everyone: Europe, the USA, and Ukraine. Because the Caucasus can become a buffer zone between the remnants of the Russian Empire and Ukraine.

The Constitution, adopted in 1992, underwent changes. During the reign of President Zelimkhan Yandarbiev in 1996, secular courts were abolished, and the Sharia courts were formed instead. Will Sharia courts remain in the new independent Chechen Republic?

- We are Muslims. Sharia norms are part of our culture. There are Sharia courts in England, there is in Canada. This does not contradict the principles and norms of international law. Muslims need national sovereignty in which they will exercise their rights as Muslims. Also, Christians can build their own laws based on their religious norms.

There is an example of the United States where every state has its own legislation, but this does not prevent the United States from introducing itself to a single state education. The same, as I think, should be in the Caucasus. There is nothing wrong with Shariah courts in themselves.

When the Chechen wars were going on, other countries did not support your republic. After the Russian attack on Ukraine, more than 50 countries were supported by the latter. Why do you think this happened? Why did European countries and the United States protect the independence of the Chechen Republic a quarter century ago?

- The thing is that the world is very cynical. The Chechen Republic is 16 or 17 thousand square kilometers and a little more than one million people, and Russia is 1/6 of land with all its resources and the market. Then the world did not want to go to confrontation with Russia. But when it came to Ukraine, everyone realized that Putin threatens not only her, but also other countries entering NATO. Therefore, they stood up.

The Chechens then turned out to be too “uninteresting” in a large political game. А ведь всего того, что происходит сейчас, можно было бы избежать, если бы российских военных остановили еще в Чечне. Но лучше уж поздно, чем никогда.

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