Mom Sasha Skochilenko - about her daughter's verdict

Conversation with mother Sasha Skochilenko about life, conclusion and verdict of her daughter

Briefly

The court sentenced the musician and artist Sasha Skochilenko to seven years in the colony for the distribution of “fakes” about the Russian army. The case was started in the spring of 2022 due to the fact that the girl replaced the price tags in a grocery store with anti-war leaflets. One of them contained information that, as a result of Russian bombing, civilians of Mariupol died. For more than a year and a half, Skochilenko, which has been diagnosed with several serious diseases, is in jail without the necessary medical care. Farida Kurbangaleeva specifically spoke to Sasha’s mother , Nadezhda Skochilenko, who now lives in Paris, why her daughter became one of the main enemies of the Putin regime .

What feeling did you learn about the sentence for Sasha?

It was like a slow quartering for me. I decided that it is better to go to the Internet later and immediately find out the result. Therefore, when the meeting began, I did not follow him. At this time, I had a conversation with a journalist and messages began to come to me, I realized that everything was bad there. The conversation had to be interrupted, because everything squeezed inside me, and I just could not speak.

But the term itself I still “ do not feel ” , because there will be an appeal, and Sasha still remains in the pre -trial detention center. She can call her, talk, she will receive programs, lawyers will see her. It is terrible that a person is innocent, and we are glad that he remains in a pre -trial detention center.

Of course, I wanted an acquittal, but I watched the judge’s behavior from the very beginning of [the process] and realized that she would not give him. It is even surprising that the judge removed this year the prosecutor requested for Sasha Skochilenko eight years in prison in a penal colony and deprivation of the right to engage in activities related to the administration of sites for another three years. , and did not give as much as the prosecutor asked.

After the sentence is announced to the judge of Oksana Demyasheva, those present at the meeting shouted “ Shame! » And what do you think of her work?

Someone asks how she sleeps, condemning the innocent. And I don’t even understand how she is not afraid of [resonance] at all, because the whole world knows what kind of person she is. But I do not wish her anything bad. I only wish justice that the judicial verification comes to her, because our lawyers recorded all her violations. They filed a complaint with the judges of the judge, so that they would figure out why she was behaving like that. She [judge] allowed the prosecutor to do everything he wants. At the same time, she rejected all the petitions of [our] lawyers. There was no justice in this process.

Sasha wrote in one of her letters that she understands the motivation of high -ranking officials - they are afraid to lose power, but does not understand what makes him participate in the repressions of “ ordinary people ” , such as the judge, prosecutor, guard, “ echnik ” . She even with irony described approximate dialogs that they can lead at home with relatives. Do you have an explanation why they do such a job?

I, too, always imagine these dialogs. Here they are at 12 people guard Sasha. And then one of them will come home and will tell how he was tired at work. Why is he tired there? He stood all day and said: “ We go out ” or “ You are violating the order of the meeting . ”

I think that these are also people who love power, but they could not pass high . There are many such people. We know who in our country the most “ great ” power in our country: Aunt, who is sitting in a window in a clinic and says “ not supposed ” . Or a cleaning lady who shouts: “ Where did you go through? "

And the authorities allocated the power from the total mass of judges, gave this loud case, and said: “ If you dry this person, as it should, you will be ours . ” They seemed to mark her. Maybe they promised her a career, maybe a bonus, maybe they promised an apartment. That is, these people are either corrupt, or love their own, though small, but power: “ I want - I will dry, I want - pardon. I am power here. And nothing will happen to me, because behind me there is even greater power . ”

On November 17, the day after the sentence, Sasha Skolichenko, the qualification collegium of judges of St. Petersburg recommended Judge Oksana Demyashev to increase-the appointment of the deputy chairman of the Kalininsky district court of St. Petersburg.

Do you think someone led the judge?

I think yes. Because from the very beginning, when Sasha was detained, she was told that the case was coming from the Investigative Committee from Moscow. The investigator told me the same thing when I asked him if I would need to go for interrogations. He directly said to me: “ I don’t know what will happen tomorrow, what they tell me, then I will do it. And the matter does not depend on the fact that I am stiting, but on what they tell me to do . ”

As a result, this investigator could not work, he in the process

Dismissed. Although he, of course, was bombarded , by his grace, a linguistic examination was done, which was used to accuse Sasha. Well, there would be, not him, so someone else. They would have found a performer among people who are also eager for petty power.

Why did you decide to leave Russia shortly after Sasha was detained?

I made this decision before the war, immediately after the pandemic of Covid, when they began to open the borders. My eldest daughter lives in France, I have a grandson and a granddaughter there. When Sasha was arrested, all the documents were already ready for departure. And when the investigator actually admitted to me that they would not investigate her case, because it is already fabricated, it became clear that the verdict is the case of time, and nothing depends on me. The meetings were closed. Sasha had no dates, she was allowed only in August. From here I corresponded with her through the Federal Penitentiary Service. And Sasha wrote to me all the time: " I am very glad that you are safe . "

And most importantly, here I could talk about her business openly and disseminate information about what is happening to her. And in Russia I just sat, read the news and cried. I know that the investigator in the case of Vika Petrova bowed her to cooperation with the investigation instead of the dates with his mother. We remember how Yuri Zhdanov’s father was imprisoned by Ivan Zhdanov, the father of the director of the Corruption Fund Ivan Zhdanov, sentenced to three years in February 2022 in the case of abuse of official powers. On November 1, 2023, he was released for administrative supervision. . Or, for example, in the “ network ”, the security forces tortured boys and said that “ we will go to your wives now . ” And the arrested signed confession.

The authorities use relatives as an element of pressure. And our investigator could come to Sasha and say that " Mom does not approve of your act, mom says that you did badly . " Sasha is very sensitive, and maybe she wouldn’t even tell me that. I did not want all this and decided to leave.

When Sasha was a child, you were inseparable with her, because she was sick a lot, but at the same time, Sasha grew up very independent. How did it happen?

I have a big difference in the age of nine years between children , and I raised the eldest daughter differently. I had experience - I realized that there is no need to commit violence against children, let them develop themselves. They say that children are born with the same set of talents, it is simply necessary for them to try. And then [in society] there will be artists, and musicians, and poets.

Sasha really hurt a lot and suffered a lot of all kinds of procedures in childhood. When it was necessary to go through the next ultrasound, make a cardiogram or electrophasis, I figured out how to occupy a child. We read a lot of books while doing these procedures. And sometimes I just invented some stories myself, and she listened with pleasure.

Then it turned out that Sasha had a unique hearing. Maybe that's why she listened to books so well. In her four years, we had to buy a piano, a wonderful teacher who was engaged with her began to come to us. Then she began to sing, it turned out that her voice was also very good. In general, of all classes, music for Sasha is the most important thing. And the fact that she is now deprived of her, because musical instruments in a pre -trial detention center are prohibited, has a huge emotional influence on her.

When Sasha was ten or eleven, she decided that she would still learn to play the guitar and went to the circle. And after six months she got a breakthrough: she had not finished school yet, and her teacher gave her students, at which she did not have enough time. Therefore, Sasha already had earnings. She generally did something all the time. Once I sang on the street and managed to collect 700 rubles. It was a long time ago, when my salary was about 6,000 rubles, that is, she earned good money.

With her diseases, she cannot live and work according to routine graphics. For example, she can wake up, and she has very low pressure, and there is simply no strength to go to work or school. Therefore, her life should be in " free flight . " And since she studied a lot at home training, she developed responsibility. She did not need someone to stand and check over her.

Sasha wrote a “ Book of Depression ” , which became popular among young people. Did you know about her disease? Did she share her feelings with you?

I did not particularly see her depression, because when Sasha was able to be more independent and began to go to school, I went to work. And before that, she has not worked anywhere for 14 years to be near her.

At this time, Sasha distance from me. Firstly, because it has grown up. And secondly, because constant concern 24 hours a day, of course, tires. You get tired when you are constantly monitored: “ Have you drank this medicine ” ? And at the age of 18, Sasha said: " That's it, I take my health myself under control . " If she believed that she needed to undergo some examinations, then she did it herself, I did not even delve into. Sasha independently found a psychotherapist because she had her little money. Of course, I could see, for example, that a person was sad, but I did not know about depression.

You did not surprise you when she reflected all this and was not afraid to tell about it publicly?

Sasha is not afraid of publicity at all, she has since childhood. I myself am a different person, because my generation was always said: " Silent . " And when I had children, I wanted everything to be the opposite: you have thoughts, and you say, do not be afraid. Well, once someone laughs at you. But you will remain a normal person. And Sasha never had constraint. Rather, she could be shy because I am her mother [and I will worry about her].

When she wrote this book, she did not think that she would have such an effect. At first, these were just pictures that she posted on the Internet. But a lot of reviews went, and Sasha realized that she had done a very good thing. Only after that she told me: " I want to tell you something . " I asked her to throw the link of the book and even then I found out everything. Around me were adults who admired this book. For example, one of my friends, a doctor, also suffered from depression. She said: " Well, Sasha is so small, and she described everything so well . "

Have you just accepted that Sasha is a lesbian? In Russia, older people often cannot come to terms with the fact that their children are LGBT.

I can never understand this. It is terrible that they do not accept their children. So you loved your child, raised, he was the best, only for you. And when he admits you, you say: " So that your legs are not here . " What is it? So you never loved him.

When Sasha began to talk about Sonya, I first thought that they were just friends, friends. And then I realized that she was allocating her. Maybe she was also worried about how I would react to this. Because when you understand that this is serious, it becomes important to you how your loved ones look at it.

I had no prejudices. As they say, the main thing is that a person is good, and what color, gender, nationality he is .

How did you learn about price tags with anti -war statements that Sasha left in the store?

Even when she was detained, we did not immediately understand what kind of price tags it was. I think that Sasha did not immediately understand this. Because she had a very serious anti -war position, she went to rallies. And at first I suggested that her persecution was connected with this.

And then she found out that she had a search at her house, which was attended by five or six security forces. They called her, stems, humiliated her. Here everyone says that it is impossible to divide. I do not divide them, but it is also very difficult for me to call them people.

But Sasha is also competent, they sat waiting for a lawyer, and only when the lawyers arrived, a search began. As it turned out later, it was only the beginning, and it was not an administrative case, but by a criminal one.

Do you understand why Sasha did it?

Understand. At first, when the war began, it painted the set

Postcards: “ Love is stronger than war and death ” , “ Tell me, if you also do not want to fight ” ... They can be found on the Web - completely peaceful messages. She printed these cards and left in stores. I did not know what she was doing, but when I found out, I liked the idea.

But as Sasha herself explained, this did not seem enough to her. In her case there is a diary that she led on her phone. She wrote notes there, as this war destroyed. Like any normal person, she dreamed of stopping her. And so, quite by chance, she saw samples of these price tags on the Internet, there were a lot of them. She chose those statements that, apparently, were more consonant to her. She thought it would have a stronger effect on people. Because the postcard is lying around there, and people still look at the price tags - they read what is written there.

What was the most difficult in jail?

At the beginning, it was specially imprisoned in a pressata, where there is intentional pressure on people. So they do with many in order to persuade a person to cooperate with the investigation. And there are prisoners who help the administration put pressure on the rest for some kind of delights. That is, these are the same best people who wish some power.

For example, Sasha came in the programs, and the “ senior ” on the cell puts them under the bed and does not allow them to take. Or they brought dinner, and she says: “ You will not have lunch ,” and does not give her to eat. Or says Sasha: " It stinks of you, you must wash your things every day . " And my daughter was forced to do this in a small sink. Sasha wrote complaints, but, unfortunately, nowhere further than this pre -trial detention center, they do not go.

Then Sasha told about this to her lawyer, and a lot of people wrote complaints to all instances. Thanks to this, it was able to transfer it into a double camera at the medical unit. And although her cellmates often change, it became much easier for her because with most of them she manages to negotiate. But complaints in the pre -trial detention center do not like. They constantly say: " You are not a sanatorium here . " Moreover, in the summer, in response to complaints to prisoners, they stopped transferring books from the will. And then they put a radio station in the yard, which from morning to night screamed some incredible poppes, and the prisoners could not hide anywhere. Sasha said that there were women and pregnant women who could not sleep because of this. Moreover, once even Verka Serduchka was turned on. I laughed very much when I found out about it. Not only is she a Ukrainian artist, it’s also a disguised man.

And what is now with Sashin nutrition, given that it has gluten's intolerance?

She categorically cannot be vegetable protein, which is contained in wheat, rye, oatmeal. Its traces are even in sunflower oil. And one fifth teaspoon of flour immediately destroys the intestines. Sasha does not have a gene that breaks down this protein. This is not an allergy, it is not treated with any drugs. She should have a very strict diet.

And in their prison what? Continuous pasta, or soup with noodles. She can eat some cabbage soup where cabbage floats. There probably is no flour. But it is not known in which pot it was cooked. Maybe it was a pan from under pasta. But a patient with celiac disease is gluten's intolerance. There should be not only your own kitchen, but also your own dishes.

If it really comes to the colony, will it be possible to provide it with suitable products?

No. Any cutlets are flour. Any sauce is flour. Why did we always fight to be transferred to house arrest? Because she cannot be there. All medical documents lie in her case. About 20 times, meetings were held to change the preventive measure, and not a single meeting ended positively. Despite the fact that a multi -million -dollar deposit was offered for Sasha.

Do you have an explanation of such inhumanity?

Definitely not. This is just a violation of all rights. We and Agapitova Svetlana Agapitova - Commissioner for Human Rights in St. Petersburg. They wrote. She came to Sasha, but, unfortunately, she did not help. They explained this by the fact that celiac disease is not in the list of diseases in which you cannot be in jail.

But there is no celiac disease there, because in our country up to two thousandths, even doctors in hospitals did not know what it was

Sonya endlessly went to the neatmed or another boss in a pre-trial detention center so that they would allow her to transfer sour milk products. Because Sasha is there all the time on a dry machine, and she feels bad for her. Этот начальник Соне говорил: « Я разрешил, приносите » . Но так как его письменного распоряжения не было, в окошке это все равно не брали. Вообще, это государственный садизм. В других странах это называется « пытки » , а в нашей стране — « госсодержание » .

Что бы вы сказали пенсионерке Галине Барановой, которая донесла на Сашу и теперь дает интервью со словами “Я горжусь тем, что сделала” , если бы встретились с ней?

Nothing. Я жила среди таких людей очень много лет. Куда не придешь, обязательно найдешь такую Баранову. Они тоже маленькая власть. А когда я прочитала ее полное интервью, поняла, что у нее такая каша в голове… При этом у нее кругом дураки — дураки в квадрате и в кубе. Единственное, что меня возмутило — она назвала “кодлой” людей, которые приходят в суд поддержать Сашу. Это вообще какой-то жаргон. “Кодлой” я могу назвать тех, кто развязывает войну. Вот это “кодла”.

Но от нее, я думаю, ничего особо не зависело. Баранова — результат того, что она смотрит по телевизору, что ей показывает наше правительство. Это власти в России выращивают таких людей и создают условия для, чтобы они появлялись.

Если бы система была здоровой, донос Барановой ни на что бы не повлиял. А если была бы нормальная судья, то она бы вынесла оправдательный приговор, потому что в деле нет ничего, за что человека можно было бы посадить в тюрьму. За судьей стоит Следственный комитет, за ними еще какая-нибудь структура. Это все уходит наверх.

Вам не обидно, что если та же самая судья Демяшева, как и другие люди системы, в будущем теоретически могут понести наказание за свои деяния, а такие доносчики, как Баранова — нет?

Мне кажется, для такого человека как раз важно, что люди скажут. Поэтому она и дала это интервью — думала, что люди будут говорить, что она молодец. Но люди-то говорят по-другому. А это для нее гораздо хуже любой уголовной статьи. У меня нет рецептов, что делать с такими Барановыми. Я не то, чтобы не хочу ее понимать или прощать, мне просто реально нет до нее дела.

В письме из ИВС Саша писала: «Так уж вышло, что я представляю собой все то, к чему так сильно нетерпим путинский режим: творчество, пацифизм, ЛГБТ, психопросвещение, феминизм, гуманизм и любовь ко всему яркому, неоднозначному, необычному». Вы понимаете, почему путинизм все это возненавидел?

Думаю, за Сашей следили давно. Потому что такие яркие, необычные, творческие люди с критическим мышлением могут « разбудить » остальных. Они могут сделать так, что люди сами начнут думать. А это для режима самое опасное — разрешить им думать. И я убеждаюсь в этом все больше, например, глядя на дело Беркович и Петрийчук.

У нас в Петербурге на Пятом канале была детская интеллектуальная передача « Игра ума » , мои дети в ней участвовали. Ее один раз закрывали, потом возродили, а потом второй раз закрыли. Такие передачи сейчас не нужны. Нужны только школы, где всех стригут под одну гребенку и делают так, чтобы все были одинаковыми. Чтобы не было ни ярких, ни особенных, только послушные. Потом из послушных выбирают лидеров, и они как раз и становятся этими судьями и прокурорами. Это очень хорошие исполнители, и что им говорят, то они и будут делать. Вот такие люди нужны власти. А такие, как Саша — нет.

Как вы думаете, подходит ли пацифизм , который избрала для себя Саша для того, чтобы бороться с таким бесчеловечным строем, который сейчас установился в России?

Мы не выбираем, как нам жить. Можно выбрать стать судьей. А такие люди, как мои дети, просто порядочные люди, извините, за это дурацкое слово. У них есть совесть, они любят правду. Саша просто по натуре такой человек — миролюбивый с огромной эмпатией.

Пацифизм — не для борьбы в буквальном смысле. Он — чтобы показать, что мирным путем тоже можно многое изменить. Например, пацифисты протестовали против войны во Вьетнаме, и у них получилось переломить ситуацию. Для меня, в первую очередь, важно, что ты сам такой, и тебя не может никто заставить взять в руки оружие и пойти кого-то убивать. Когда я жила в Петербурге, я не могла даже смотреть на военные парады и не выходила на набережную Невы, где ставили военные корабли. Мне видеть это было невыносимо.

Но есть ли смысл в « непротивлении злу насилием » ?

Сашино дело « хорошо » тем, что ее единомышленники находят друг друга по этим судебным заседаниям. Даже в комментариях они просто договариваются общаться и помогать друг другу. И они будут знать, что их немало — это будет им давать силу. Они все эмпатичные, для них очень важна моральная поддержка. Даже сашин приговор многие восприняли как личное горе. Многие плакали и не скрывали этого. Даже взрослые люди мне писали: « Я читаю новости и плачу » . И я так этим людям благодарна за то, что Саша все это увидела и услышала. За то, как они ее провожали, когда ее сажали в полицейскую машину, чтобы увезти из суда.

Я очень благодарна адвокатам и профессиональным экспертам за работу в таких условиях. Они тоже очень смело и очень правильно все говорили. Некоторые думают: « Какой смысл распинаться перед судьей и прокурором, если мы понимаем что это все равно ей дадут семь лет и мы ни на что не можем повлиять? » Но это нужно именно для самой Саши. Для того, чтобы она еще больше убедилась, что права, что она не сделала никакого преступления.

Как сказал [адвокат Юрий] Новолодский, « мы называем это « поступком » . Думаю, что ему хотелось добавить слово « прекрасный » , но он не мог его сказать. Это важно для всех людей, которые сейчас приходят в отчаяние, и некоторым из них не с кем поговорить об этом даже в семье. И когда они это читают или слушают, им важно понимать, что они остались людьми и находятся на правильном пути, чтобы укрепиться в своей вере.