Translated material
Russian Taliban
Alexander Morozov and Nikolai Mitrokhin - about who is behind a wave of obscurantism in Russia
Sergey Medvedev: Russia covers Russia with a wave of obscurantism. Officials argue that a woman needs to give birth, and not study, Patriarch Kirill proposes to ban on abortion in private clinics, and it is proposed to declare all the "world LGBT movement" to extremist. Who is behind this explosion of ultra -conservatism? What is the role of the church here?
In our studio, political analyst Alexander Morozov and Nikolai Mitrokhin, a researcher at the Center for the Study of Eastern Europe at the University of Bremen . I want to add one more thing: a monstrous sentence to doctors on surrogate motherhood, unthinkable terms - 16 and 19 years! Can we tie it all in some kind of general picture?
Alexander Morozov: It must be borne in mind that a year ago Putin signed a decree on the state strategy in the field of spiritual and moral values. This whole topic was in one form or another, but now it seems to be under the umbrella of the declared state policy in the field of these "traditional spiritual values." Accordingly, the mass of different state bodies and speakers begin to focus on it. Now this is not just a trend of some part of a society associated with the church or ultra-conservative circles, but state policy.
Sergey Medvedev: Do you have any explanation for this time for doctors for surrogate motherhood? Who needs it?
Nikolai Mitrokhin: In the Russian legal system, there are enough enthusiasts of punitive practices, the maximum deadlines, including in relation to those who, from the point of view of a particular judge or prosecutor, stood out in the wrong direction, did something wrong, starting from the Minister of Justice, which we have very Orthodox.
In the Russian legal system, there are enough enthusiasts of punitive practices
Secondly, we can simply look at the terrifying roll of the law enforcement and judicial system of Russia, striving to distribute the maximum deadlines, especially in politically significant matters or seeming. The same Sasha Skochilenko was given seven years for price tags, which at best qualify as petty hooliganism. Or in Togliatti, a person was given six years for throwing the lands of land in posters with his. It is possible that someone somewhere counted the activities of doctors with surrogate motherhood according to some internal counter, according to which these or other people who fell into the millstones of this machine are real enemies-and rolled up in full. First of all, this is the framework of the presidential administration, Putin and other people from the political elite: they set this kind of trend, within the framework of which you can not be shy and issue the terms that you want.
Sergey Medvedev: Sasha, is there any deep state, that I conditionally call "Russian Taliban"? Everyone has in sight of the Malofeevs, the movement "Forty forties" , the speaker of Legoyd. Is there any network of people who can go to the FSB to Patrushev, who forms this monstrous ultra-conservative trend?
Alexander Morozov: After the amendments to the Constitution, that is, after the beginning of the next stage of Putinism as a system, since 2020, another revolution has occurred, and we see well: these are not some hidden conservative groups, but there are simply several very influential completely public clans. First of all, this, of course, is SB and Patrushev along with Medvedev as a speaker. This is undoubtedly the entire knot associated with the Moscow Patriarchate, which includes not only the Patriarchate itself, but also the World Russian People’s Cathedral , and Metropolitan Tikhon Shevkunov as a kind of ideologist. The third block is directly the center of “E”, the FSB and everyone who should follow, as they believe, is a constitutional order, but in reality they implement repressive articles.
There are some other blocks. Many say that the government has people who are preoccupied with economic stability. Perhaps one of them is amazed at excessive solutions in the field of these "traditional values", as this interferes with the economy somewhere or creates an unnecessary erroneous trend. After all, it is clear that the lack of the population is not decided due to measures to limit abortion. This is solved with the help of some measures in the field of modern migration.
Alexander Morozov
There are such large public groups here, and they are not lateral, today they are strategic centers of the Russian state, determine both domestic and foreign policy. Kiriyenko is now with all his pentabasis, which also serves the creation of state ideology, maybe he himself does not act as a supporter of such frank obscurantism, but constantly sets out some kind of futurology. At the same time, what they are developing, and the fact that it is promoted through the knowledge of the "knowledge" ... They reported - 17 thousand lecturers! On the one hand, there are lectures on artificial intelligence, and immediately - lectures on Malofeev and the Comple of Byzantium. So after 2020 we are dealing with a new configuration of this system, and in it this, as we used to say, the conservative block is now central.
Sergey Medvedev: Nikolai, do you see some clearly designed subjectivity in this ultra-conservative block? Who are these people?
Nikolai Mitrokhin: I think here is one person - this is Putin.
The fact that Putin speaks of traditional-moral values corresponds to the church mainstream as a whole
I’ll add a sudden issue of deputy Milonov here here: this is such a Putin’s personal dog in terms of “spiritual and moral values” and the fight against gays. All these people carry a conservative blizzard in the framework of a certain clearly given line. If we talk about Patrushev, then, of course, he is a tough fighter with the "world hegemony of the West", but there is nothing close to the Orthodox or to the conservative for him. He makes some talk about the suppression of internal civilian freedoms, but “Talibanism” cannot be seen behind him. But who can see this, is Putin with his visits to Tikhon Shevkunov, with conversations that have recently become more frequent, with his rather cynical support of Patriarch Kirill, who is not given to the development of the church, but he is protected in the Pussy Riot case. By the way, there was a rather strong version that the Patriarchate was ready to swallow it, but then she was advised to be offended.
See also a country without memory Sergey Medvedev: How much the fundamentalist wing is in the Orthodox Church?
Nikolai Mitrokhin: The fundamentalist wing, of course, gives rise to some ideas that later go further into the church environment, but its strength itself was perfectly demonstrated by history with the same Sergius, which the state was given to eat: they wrote about it. Now he is in prison with a good time. I think that Putin speaks of traditional moral values does not correspond to the fundamentalists, but to the church mainstream as a whole, that is, he does not say anything more radical than they say at the level of the Synod and the Russian Orthodox Church.
Metropolitan of St. Petersburg Barsanuphius in every interview about the bill on spiritual and moral values simply tells adoration, unlike the war . If the war is not particularly popular among church figures, then spiritual and moral values are it! But I do not think that everything that lies in this law goes exclusively from the Russian Orthodox Church. For example, the largest Russian telegram channel “The ax” , which, judging by ideology, is conducted by some fairly young people with a strongly anti-migrant mood, and a dozen more such channels for young men in Russia support such a summons that you need to suppress gays and femoral, glue over them as much as you can, but this is not to protect spiritual and moral values. Therefore, Putin actually reflects the position of more or less the majority of the male population of Russia, and this is a much more significant public stratum than the Russian Orthodox Church.
If the war is not particularly popular among church figures, then spiritual and moral values are it!
Sergey Medvedev: How does it all coincide with aspirations and orientations of the churching part of the Russian Orthodox world?
Alexander Morozov: These radical positions, of course, are close to the overwhelming majority of the Orthodox. 80% of those who go to temples for all twentieth holidays are people who are sincerely convinced that, from the words of the priests with whom they communicate, the gospel in a certain way regulates both family and social life. These people are used to taking a blessing for each of their acts. But the percentage of such churching in Russia is very small. Russia, as a whole, remains a highly adequistic country, because it had a very long atheistic period.
Sergey Medvedev: Is the Russian population ready to maintain an abortion ban?
Alexander Morozov: Even by the reaction that is now, it is clear: no, although in Russia there are two or three territories that are ready to support this. A complete ban on abortion is a disaster for Russian society that would cause very serious consequences.
Sergey Medvedev: Other countries go through this disaster, such as Poland.
Alexander Morozov: In Poland, a new government is now - they will check, and there will be nothing of this. It is one thing to discuss such a conservative agenda in old democracies, and the other is the use of this conservative agenda in autocracies and dictatorships. It doesn’t matter here at all whether some law will be realized and how consistently, but it is important how wide bureaucracy can take advantage of this as a general political language. This is the most important point. And in this sense of the word, of course, there is a big difference between the anti -abortion or similar agenda in Europe or in the USA and in Russia. In Russia, the population, in my opinion, is largely indifferent to this whole agenda. The real agenda that affects the Russian population is pensions and the opportunity to get to the city from its village.
Nikolai Mitrokhin
Sergey Medvedev: Nikolai, how much is Russian society ready to take this whole agenda and drift towards Iran?
Nikolai Mitrokhin: Of course, Russian society is ready to take the ban on LGBT or, in any case, public LGBT organization, despite the fact that it is tolerant of individual gays and lesbians and is happy to watch the corresponding porn. Abortion is not, but a total ban is not proposed, a restriction is proposed. Here, some restriction, in any case, at a verbal level, will be supported, since there is a common lower class that, yes, the Russians lose themselves, too many migrants, so Russian women need to give birth. But Russian nationalists themselves, despite their calls to increase the number of Russians, do not start themselves three, five, ten children.
A complete ban on abortion - it would be a disaster for Russian society
The trend that seems to be a single -conservative does not actually look like that. The authorities are pressing to different buttons, and these buttons react differently, because in Russia many initiatives that are launched from above are sagging, that is, lower-level actors at all levels, ranging from the heads of the department of ministries and ending with a particularly taken by the teacher or small administrator, have some space: to perform or not to execute, from the heart or formally, to formally fulfill one legislative act.
Sergey Medvedev: Is it really about political technology, and not about the fundamentalist drift of a certain nucleus of the Russian population?
Alexander Morozov: I am convinced that this is not about the majority of the population, but still it is impossible to express optimism on this basis, because it is not political technology in the narrow sense of the word, but totalitarian manipulation. Due to various kinds of aggressive markers, which it costs nothing, nevertheless some tactical majority is being formed, and it is not used to arm the entire population, as in the case of the Taliban, create a national police, burn musical instruments and destroy the statues of Buddha. No, this is done only so that the top of the authorities can continue to constantly manipulate the situation, simply denoting the enemy. Nothing else is worth it.
Does the population of the enemy seriously see? Of course, not, because if you suddenly expand it, then it instantly begins to whine: "Yes, no, we never thought that this people are our enemy. We remember the good." Putin and the Kremlin play very much. There is also an element of sentimentalism. Putin and this whole machine of ideology use the sentimental theme of war, suffering, as if the Russian population should always think that the outside world wants to make them victims, cause them suffering. All this philosophy of "traditional values" is aimed only at one thing: to convince the Russian population that someone wants to again arrange a blockade of Leningrad and kill millions of people.
The trend that seems to be a single -conservative, in fact, does not look like that
Sergey Medvedev: If it is fascism, then some kind of simulative.
Alexander Morozov: Yes, very modern, associated with media, with a different type of mobilization of the population. Look what is happening now! Before our eyes, the concept of degenerative art is quickly and quickly formed: the Ministry of Culture began to delete unwanted artists, curators, directors on its list, and the names are filmed. It is not the idea of an abortion that is important for Putin, I am an idea: let's focus on a healthy society, because you need to fight, and there should be different elements of health. So let there be a healthy art, a healthy movie, a healthy family.
Sergey Medvedev: Nikolai, biopolitics - is this part of any authoritarianism?
Nikolai Mitrokhin: The dictatorship is aimed at the fact that the dictator is a father. And, accordingly, the whole state is rebuilt from this thought that we just have a large family. And he rules endlessly not because he is a political leader (this is itself), but by the right that he is a father. And you need to see Putin’s interviews to understand that he is absolutely pleased with his life, a happy grandfather who is already a little insignificant, that is, he does not very adequately evaluate the situation, but he controls real estate, large family finances, has a significant inheritance, for which his adult children are forced to sit around and nod their heads. And grandfather is sure that he did everything in his life correctly, that he has unique knowledge, can give everyone advice and instructions, distribute small gifts, and if anyone will be herepen, then the grandfather will punish.
Sergey Medvedev: Indeed, fundamentalism never stops on abortion, on the rights of the woman’s body, on the ban on LGBT, he begins to bring the rights to the body of the nation. As a result, he begins to kill, because fundamentalism in his limit is a war.