Translated material
Naryshkin is looking for an enemy in the rear
The head of foreign intelligence of the Russian Federation announced the enemy by the enemy of all Russians who studied in the United States for all kinds of educational programs. Now overseas owners will remotely set them up for disrupting the Russian elections. Is it true that training in the United States is able to politically reflect a person? About this - guests of the program "Face to the event". Those who studied there, and those who did not study there, but still declared an enemy. On the air, journalists Pavel Kanygin , Denis Kamalyagin and Maxim Glykin . Presenter Elena Rykovtseva.
Video version of the program
Elena Rykovtseva: Another categories of citizens are proposed to prepare: everyone who studied, went through some programs, has trained in the USA. Because all of you with a upper, the head of the foreign intelligence service of the Russian Federation, Sergei Naryshkin, suspected that now the American hosts will influence you remotely and you will suffer the wonderful elections of the President of the Russian Federation. Let's listen to him.
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0:00 0:00:38Elena Rykovtseva: You understand that not all Russians got acquainted with this wonderful text, especially since it was posted on the website of the foreign intelligence service: not each of you goes to this site every day. Therefore, we asked passers -by on the streets of Moscow: are they not afraid of those who graduated from universities or have been trained in America under other programs, are they threatening for Russia?
Elena Rykovtseva: Two guests who studied, trained in the United States will participate on our air, they will tell us about how overseas masters were dripping on their fragile brain, from the point of view of Naryshkin. We have a third guest who has never traveled to the United States, nevertheless, Russian propaganda has been waging a focused war with this guest since 2018. Look at one of the plots of the 2018 REN TV channel just about our guest today.
Elena Rykovtseva: If you think that REN TV company is limited to one plot, you are mistaken, we also learned about the “Pskov province” terrible things in 2018.
Elena Rykovtseva: Denis Kamalyagin is in touch with us. Today he is on the wanted list, a "foreign agent". And all this without a trip to the USA. Describe us your life path. How did it happen that you, a “foreign agent” on the wanted list, since 2018, sit in a comor, in which European money is flowing with a stream, and all this without appropriate internship? Who worked with you?
In Pskov, they have always been very jealous of opposition independent forces because of the paratroopers, because of the proximity to the border
Denis Kamalyagin: When they laid out a screen with the support of the American National Fund of Democracy, for some reason the amount is in euros there. Then they riveted before the presidential elections in 2018: we had to look for enemies and we were such enemies, because there were few independent media that opposed against. In addition, in Pskov, the opposition independent forces were always very jealous of just because of the paratroopers, because of the proximity to the border, so we were always under the sight. Yes, indeed, from 2018 to 2024, we went this way. Some of the former employees are “foreign agents”, I am a “foreign agent”, on a criminal investigation department. Yesterday, a criminal case for failure to fulfill the functions of a "foreign agent" was brought up from Pskov yesterday.
Elena Rykovtseva: And at the same time, it cannot be said that you went through your whole team in the United States, studied there?
Denis Kamalyagin: It was not. The team that works now is scary to say, colleagues in November for the first time went to a friend in the United States, and now we definitely have to wait for REN TV. I did not go anywhere further than Great Britain, where the School of Civil Education held a journalistic seminar with us, introduced the work of media in Britain. With the same success, I would love to go to Uzbekistan and see how the media work there. This does not mean that someone is driving and trying to make aggressive propagandists. Our power itself works as a propagandist, works with their service media, they work exclusively for money and from under the stick. And she is sure that everyone works like that.
Elena Rykovtseva: Of course, I am a happy person, because I managed to visit you in this little comor, which was shown on TV. I think that they began to pursue you really from the history of the Pskov paratroopers, from these burials.
Denis Kamalyagin: After all, this story breaks the whole scheme about "tell me, where you were eight years." They told how some local rebels are struggling with the Kyiv junta. Then the Pskov province and then other media told and proved that Russian military, some on vacation, who were not even on vacation, took part there. Because of this, all ideology, strategy and an attempt to tell that it was a popular war broke out.
Since 2013, "Pskov province" in principle has not been engaged in politics
Elena Rykovtseva: This is really an extremely contradictory situation. Your newspaper, as I understand it, did not work close to any election breakdown, your newspaper is a partner newspaper of the Yabloko party, Lev Schlosberg, who always went to the polls and called their voters there. You and the breakdown of the elections are two antagonists. I understand correctly?
Denis Kamalyagin: Lev Schlosberg and Yabloko were predecessors, after him the post of chief editor was held by the famous “terrorist” Svetlana Prokopyeva, now I am. Since 2013, the newspaper, in principle, has not been engaged in politics. This is such a stigma that is still hung on the publication and fight, by default, considering this to be opposition edition, pursuing political goals. No, we are not engaged in politics, especially the breakdown of the election. We illuminated the work of observers, the same “voice” , and they, too, are not engaged in a breakdown, they are observed. What to call a breakdown? Prevention of violations? Sorry.
Elena Rykovtseva: With us, Pavel Kanygin , a man who was taught something in the United States. Pavel, you were already from the Novaya Gazeta, you are already spoiled, from their point of view, and then the United States. Speaking seriously, did you feel in the program that you were engaged in the States, something that could adjust your brains in terms of hatred for the Russian government?
Pavel Kanygin: Regarding hatred - no. Probably, in terms of even greater love and care for her. This program is more than 70 years old, it was first only for the Americans, then it was expanded to all the inhabitants of our beautiful land. It helps to expand the horizons, with different eyes to look at the world, at its homeland and other countries. This is very important and useful for a journalist-not to hide at any one point of view, to look at things from different positions. This is useful for politicians, and for the military, and figures of public organizations, human rights activists. Just with all these people, I ended up in the same class.
Unfortunately, in the year when I was there, there was practically no one from Russia. From some time, Russians stopped participating in Harvard programs, but there were a lot of students from Kazakhstan, who sent the state at the expense of the budget. I studied with the Deputy Minister of Health. There was one of the officials of the Moldavian Ministry of Health. I immediately understood that the societies and the authorities of these countries somehow look at a foreign influence differently.
For a journalist, it is important not to focus on one point of view, look at things from different positions
Elena Rykovtseva: Why is Tokaev not afraid that they will come and tear off his elections? I know that in the state structures of Kazakhstan many young people work who openly receive education there, which are given by scholarships so that they receive it in the West.
Pavel Kanygin: He is already spoiled, because he was a diplomat, for a long time was in close contact with representatives of other states, somehow infected, apparently, openness, anti-insulationism, progressive values. To speak seriously, then all countries, including China until recently, sent their students in a large representative office to foreign colleges and universities, American, first of all, where they received high -quality, most modern education. It is amazing that in our Russia it became a synonym for betrayal, brainwashing, impregnation of them with some other values. It's just absurd!
I wish everyone for at least a month, and even better a year or even two to learn in some foreign college in English or French. It is really very important. By the way, in the near abroad there are programs in English: in Vilnius, Riga, Stockholm, Amsterdam. It is not necessary to go to Harvard to let in a little other modern knowledge into your brains. Another thing is that, unfortunately, this is now dangerous, as we see, because any contact with the "foreign region" can become at least a "fake", "discrediting the army" or "disrespect for state authorities."
Elena Rykovtseva: You need to conduct a discussion with Naryshkin, because he also pronounced the word "Riga" in this text, saying: we know that it is there from February 16 to February 18 to break off our elections, and we will calculate everyone.
Pavel Kanygin: An amazing person! I can’t forget the scene when he talked with Vladimir Putin.
Elena Rykovtseva: I would begin every program with these scenes.
Maxim Glykin is in touch with us. One person I spoke with is very well oriented in American educational programs. I asked him: are you ready to take part in such a program? He says: "I can’t break the open door. This is such nonsense! Let us arrange a program about how the Americans have a raising patriotism. What is the point of explaining the obvious?" Do you think that it is necessary to explain the obvious that in the USA there is no system of brainwashing and setting up these young people against their own country?
Let's arrange a program about how the Americans are raising patriotism
Maxim Glykin: With the same Naryshkin, when he was still a State Duma speaker in the Medvedev mini-windows, all the same Russian officials led by Medvedev actively went to the United States to gain experience. They wanted to make a silicone valley in Skolkovo, went to California. A cousin lives there, she said: "Here, they go to Medvedev’s office, someone else, they really want to meet Brin, and Brin does not give them an audience." Medvedev oligarchs paid for a business school in Skolkovo, which was built on the principle of American business schools. Then Naryshkin and the whole Russian elite were with all his hands to do all this. This is all obvious Brausatina, there is nothing to discuss.
I also had experience and study in America. It is quite obvious that if America helps something, then rather gives a certain landmark and has a tremendous influence on Russia, even the Russian language is filled with Americanisms. This is an extremely positive influence, you can list a lot of spheres that America influenced.
Elena Rykovtseva: As long as you worked there or took some courses, you did not feel any impact on yourself in terms of the fact that “you are ours, you must be saturated with the spirit of America, do you return to your country and promote our agenda”?
Maxim Glykin: American diplomats, Cereushniki did not work with us. This is not that the Russians are promoting "soft power", they work with someone. Rather, the most Russians who live there have the most influence on culture. When I was in America, I found Dovlatov’s circle, not himself, but his whole circle was still alive in the 90s: Vile was alive, so far, thank God, Genis lives there. Naturally, through Radio Liberty, they had a tremendous influence on Russia, enriched its culture, philosophical thought.
Elena Rykovtseva: They still told the truth about what was happening there.
This is all obvious nonsense, there is nothing to discuss here
Maxim Glykin: But the influence is extremely positive. The Russians themselves influenced - Genis, Weil, Dovlatov, Solzhenitsyn, Voinovich, Butman, who also communicated with me in America, and now in United Russia, Zhurbin had a tremendous influence on the musical culture of Russia, the Soviet Union.
Elena Rykovtseva: Ella Pamfilova is also looking for those who will break her elections. Guess where she is looking for them.
Elena Rykovtseva: I want to remind you of another campaign: in 2018, all federal channels (but the REN TV channel was especially distinguished here) led her against people, whom they called "foreign spies", "foreign agents". Radio Liberty was declared the "ino -agent" just exactly in these years, before the presidential election. Even then, they made enemies from these people. Now you will hear several names and surnames and will understand that this campaign has achieved success, because some of their characters are in prison, and part abroad. Maybe the units remained in Russia those that they spoke about then.
Elena Rykovtseva: Then REN TV was on a day every day led a campaign against these people. They shot the film "Liberals - Black Fat." Their next client was the FBK led by Alexei Navalny.
Elena Rykovtseva: And they conveyed this film from the presenter to the presenter. Each presenter advertised these products for the viewer in his news release.
Elena Rykovtseva: Two more months pass - the third series of the film "Liberal - Black Nala" appears on REN TV, and again his advertisement in news releases.
Elena Rykovtseva: These in all ways promoted these liberals-3 on their informational broadcast.
Elena Rykovtseva: Well, and, as I said, many heroes of the then reports of this company REN TV are already sitting in Russian prisons today.
Elena Rykovtseva: Personnel with Vladimir Milov, Evgeny Kiselev, Mark Feigin (all of them are now abroad), Ilya Yashin, who in prison, flash here. Denis, do you think that then sentences were already signed and the summons were written there - to the West? Then it was already possible to guess that all these heroes would be in prisons either in forced emigration, or at that moment there was still a faith that these presidential elections would end and they will get off from their "favorites"?
This campaign has achieved success: part of their clientele in prison, and part abroad
Denis Kamalyagin: Let's honestly: we all probably considered this an exaggeration. An attempt to create an image of an enemy for an internal audience in order to hold power inside. The veil fell with the beginning of a full -scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022. Since 2014, many of us still have some illusions that this was all such a struggle. Propaganda, accusing us of all of the development of grants, just pushes away from itself, because it is only it that it works out state grants. She needed to work, make money. The more enemies, the more money, and they needed these "enemies" to earn money. I perceived this through the prism of humor, it was funny for us after REN TV videos. We recorded humorous vidos, posted pictures with how we divide the euro, and so on. If you told me in 2018 that in 2020 I will be the first “foreign agent”, and in 2023 I will be on the federal wanted list, I would, of course, answer: well, throw it, all these are fairy tales.
Elena Rykovtseva: Maxim, you are a political analyst. At that moment, when this shaft was on us all, that “you spies, traitors” and so on, you understood how it would end for people who were mentioned in this context, or did it also seem to you that this is a purely elected story, the elections would end and the swamp will return to its previous state?
Maxim Glykin: It has never been a purely elected story. We remember that in our camps "traitors" were shot outside of any elections. Remember the targets with the faces of Alekseeva and so on in the Surkovsky camps? All this was not directly related to the elections. "Walking together" threw Sorokin's books into a cardboard toilet and so on. This struggle with liberals has been carried out constantly from the moment Putin arrives, from the moment of the defeat of NTV. I understood, of course, that all this was rolling into totalitarian practices, they are not far off. I told mine that it was necessary to receive Israeli citizenship (I received in 2019), because everything goes to the fact that they will declare me a "foreigner". This happened in 2021-I already had where to go, I already had a passport. In 2021, I interviewed Yavlinsky, he said that the powerful cleaning of 2021 and the “foreign-agents” -physlitsa-this was the case to war. "Putin has already declared war in his article about Ukraine in the summer of 2021," Yavlinsky said in an interview with New Times. That is, to everyone who analyzed the situation, it was clear where everything was rolling.
We hoped that maybe it would somehow roll back, somehow it would not completely swell, it would not reach the war, to the Stalinist practices. But I understood that, most likely, if Putin will strengthen, it would reach. This is just the logic of the dictatorship. In the later stages, the dictator is no longer a little blood to hold autocracy, you need to let in greater blood, otherwise it does not work. As for the population, it will believe, it will not believe ... When such a powerful propaganda skating rink rolls, when they are cleaned out of the system of everyone who speaks against, such as us or “Novaya Gazeta”, it is clear that the population will be propagandized as required upstairs. Тем более что госмонополия на ТВ тогда уже была установлена, Путин начал с установления полной монополии на телевизионную промывку мозгов.
Чтобы удерживать автократию, нужно пускать большую кровь, иначе не получается
Елена Рыковцева: Нарышкин сейчас говорит уже о населении, он не говорит о профессиональных политиках. 2018 год: мы видели обвинение, что срывают выборы те, у кого есть хоть какое-то иностранное финансирование, хотя иногда его нет, это просто газета критически оценивает действия власти, и поэтому они априори "под иностранным влиянием". 2024 год: Нарышкин объявляет всех, кто учился в США, потенциальными врагами, "пятой колонной", которая будет срывать выборы. Значит, уже в 2030 году тех, кто придет на выборы в американских джинсах, будут, наверное, сразу заворачивать сразу с ззбирательного участка в полицеский. Люди разве не видят, что эта кампания, то, что объявил Нарышкин, – это уже не журналисты "Новой газеты", которая была критична, не "Псковской губернии", не ФБК Навального, это обычные студенты, которые получили образование? У населения никак не сработает этот щелчок?
Максим Гликин: А сами они, обитатели коридоров власти, не получили ли американское или британское образование? Тот же Астахов и его сын.
Елена Рыковцева: Сначала посмотрим наш сюжет, а потом вы будете его комментировать.
Елена Рыковцева: Мы все помним, с какой кровью выдирали из Соединенных Штатов сына Медведева, который прямо из огня да в полымя вступил в "Единую Россию". И Лиза Пескова тоже неохотно прощалась с Францией. Есть люди, которые там учились и остались патриотами власти. Как вы считаете, Нарышкин их всех тоже в чем-то подозревает или он верит, что они остаются лояльными? А если верит, то почему, ведь они же учились?
Элита по-прежнему отправляет на Запад своих детей и сама стремится там отдыхать
Максим Гликин: Даже никому из окружения Нарышкина неинтересно, во что верит или не верит Нарышкин. Его роль была очень хорошо всем явлена, мы уже вспоминали момент того самого Совбеза. Он просто ретранслятор определенной сегодняшней тактики. Список можно продолжать очень долго. Это все старшее поколение, а ведь есть еще Шейнин. Не так давно мои коллеги обнаружили, что его сын тоже живет сейчас в США, а высшее образование получал в Швейцарии. Дочь Родниной вообще клеймит, находится в своей новой родине Америке. Некоторые хоккеисты из Putin Team до сих пор играют там, потому что они там зарабатывают деньги.
То есть двоемыслие по-прежнему царит в умах элиты. Когда, условно, какие-то Цыгановы говорят о теории заговоров, живут они в основном сейчас все-таки не в России. Элита по-прежнему отправляет туда своих детей и сама стремится там отдыхать. Обнаружили очень много людей, жен и дочерей, которые там отдыхают или даже участвуют в скачках, их лошади или сами они участвуют в конкуре. Все лучшее там, хобби там, яхты там. Как переживал Соловьев, когда там арестовывали виллу! Такое двоемыслие, когнитивный диссонанс, который постоянно царит в их умах и сердцах, – это прежде всего их проблемы. Население, конечно, догадывается, что они все там, но ему некуда деваться.
Елена Рыковцева: Проблема их, а объявляют "иностранными агентами" и портят жизнь другим людям.
Максим Гликин: Они, конечно, создают нам проблемы изо всех сил, но их ментальная проблема все-таки видна. Мы не видим, что эти люди счастливы, мы видим, что они страшно бесятся, их голос дрожит, они нехорошо выглядят. Леонтьева стали называть "пресс-алкаше" "Роснефти". "Почему они пьют?" – спрашивал Сталин у Фадеева. "От радости, товарищ Сталин", – отвечал Фадеев. Почему они пьют, почему они в таком состоянии? Иногда Захарова появляется в странном, не очень трезвом виде – не потому ли, что она вспоминает о Нью-Йорке, где играла пышную свадьбу? Не потому ли Астахов, детский омбудсмен, лоббировал закон, что его перестали пускать в Соединенные Штаты, один из университетов которых он называл "моя альма-матер". И когда его престали туда пускать, он сказал: так не пустим же туда русских сирот! Он был одним из главных лоббистов этого ужасного "закона подлецов" .
Двоемыслие царит в умах элиты
Елена Рыковцева: Есть люди, которые не ездят ни на какие стажировки, не учатся за границей, но, тем не менее, объявляются "иностранными агентами" и "срывальщиками выборов". Вы видели этих пропагандистов, у которых там жизнь прошла, бизнесы оттуда, они успешно обслуживают власть по части пропаганды. Можем ли мы из этого сделать вывод, что вообще никакой роли ни в одну, ни в другую сторону не играет жизнь и учеба за границей?
Денис Камалягин: Возвращаясь к этому сюжету, к замечательной подборке обо всех пропагандистах, которые гораздо больше нас провели времени в Европе и в США: мне кажется, отличную мысль сформулировал Дугин в прошлом году. Он написал фразу, которая на сто процентов характеризует современную Россию: "Когда негодяй становится патриотом, он перестает быть негодяем и получает прощение". Тогда он в первую очередь говорил о зэках, но, мне кажется, это подходит и для всех наших пропагандистов и чиновников. Они уверены, что, став патриотами, какими они себя считают, они перестают быть негодяями, им прощается абсолютно все, они могут делать все что угодно.
Что касается нас, то это просто клеймо. Тут абсолютно неважно, считают или не считают они нас предателями, им главное, чтобы нам как можно меньше доверяли, потому что мы имеем другую точку зрения. Для этого есть несколько инструментов: клеймить любыми статусами – "иноагента", уголовника, как-то еще, и второе – желательно вытеснить из страны или посадить. Кстати, посадить журналиста было бы для них лучше, чем вытеснить из страны, потому что работать мы все равно продолжаем. В их решении нет никакого рационального зерна, все работает исключительно на пропаганду. Вся страна превратилась в пропаганду. То, что сейчас происходит с системой ЖКХ, с коммунальной сферой в России, прекрасно показывает: никто не занимается экономикой, все занимаются пропагандой.
Елена Рыковцева: Все-таки заграница и эти пропагандисты – влияние есть или его нет никакого? Или это то, о чем говорит Максим: они обозлены, что они это потеряли?
В их решении нет никакого рационального зерна, все работает исключительно на пропаганду
Денис Камалягин: Честно говоря, я об этом не думал. Представьте, есть Патрушев, есть Путин, люди, которые не пользуются интернетом, читают книги про рептилоидов, абсолютно оторванные от жизни. Если придут их помощники и скажут, что у нас готовится оранжево-желто-зеленая революция и все это из-за независимых журналистов, все они учатся на Западе, деньги с Запада, они в это поверят, и все.
Елена Рыковцева: Уважаемые слушатели и студенты, которые живут в России, не афишируйте свое обучение в Соединенных Штатах, если вы уже допустили такую оплошность!