So as not to kill

In 2013, Elena Popova, activist of Soldiers' mothers of St. Petersburg, and two more people created the movement of conscious refusers of military service in Russia (DSO). All these years, the organization has been helping people subject to conscription, not to go to the army and not pick up weapons. “Such cases” were discussed with Elena Popova, how to refuse military service in 2024

"Who will be easier from this?"

- You said in the past interviews that if a person does not want to be in the army and is making efforts for this, then he will not get there. Is it still relevant?

- Yes, sure.

- When should you start thinking about it? Now it is no longer possible to apply for an alternative civil service (AGS) so as not to get into the army in the current or autumn draft?

- You can and should be submitted. Especially if you are not 100% sure that you are exempted from service - for example, for a medical diagnosis.

The conditional deadlines for submitting an application to the AGS - six months before the start of the call to which it will be considered. For example, until April 1, 2024, if a person should be called in the fall of 2024. These terms are needed for the convenience of officials who organize AGS. But they do not forbid a person to apply at any time. If you have not done this before, prepare a statement right now ( there is a template in the DSO catalog. - Approx. TD) .

Many people who apply for AGS have an alternative civil service is not an end in itself. The main task is to protect against drafting into the army. Therefore, I ask people first of all to decide: what do you want?

If you want to go to the AGS on the next call, bring your position to the draft commission. Why should you replace military service with an alternative, despite the missing deadlines? In the ruling of the Constitutional Court on the complaints of Mikhail Zhidkov and Oleg Pilnikov, Black and Belarmed, it is written that the deadlines for submitting applications can be extended by the court or the law enforcement authority - that is, the draft commission.

Barches with uniforms for conscripts at the prefabricated point of the military commissariataatoto: Peter Kovalev / TASS

Therefore, it is important to tell in a statement about the good reasons for the breakdown of the deadlines. For example, your beliefs have been formed recently (more about what is considered beliefs, Elena wrote in the DSO catalog. - Approx. TD) . Or you did not know about the deadline for submitting an application. A person is not required to know such details.

- That is, what has been formed recently. Is this not a contradiction?

- Of course, beliefs can be formed throughout life. A person is not born with them.

I often refer to the decision that the Shaksninsky District Court of the Vologda Region issued in 2007 in relation to the conscript of Denis Veselogo. He pointed out that he did not know about the deadlines, and his pacifist beliefs finally developed shortly before the application. The court considered this reason the respectful and decided to send a cheerful to the AGS (the text of the decision is by reference in Appendix 1. - Approx. TD) . You can use the same wording in the statement.

In general, to the draft commission, it is important to convey a simple message. Yes, they have the right to refuse your AGS, referring to the passage of the deadlines. But why? Who will be easier from this?

The draft commission should understand that you will not give up so simply. You will defend your right not to kill and not learn to kill. In case of refusal, you will go to court. If the court of first instance does not satisfy the lawsuit, you will appeal. The call during this time will end, and in the next call you will submit a new application to the AGS.

All this time, a lawyer, an assistant to the military commissar for legal issues, will come to court several times for a call, spend a working day. And this will not lead to anything.

Therefore, it is most reasonable to just replace you with military service with an alternative civilian. You can add that you will work in a hospital or in a boarding house-it is possible that one of the members of the draft board or their loved ones may be there. You will engage in help from people, and not waste time on a trial that will not give anything.

This simple human thought must be conveyed in the statement itself, both in additional written explanations, and in an oral speech at a meeting of the draft commission. Its members are able to think about it and make a decision in your favor.

"Neither military nor civilian"

- You mentioned that some submit an application to the AGS, namely not to get into the army. That is, they are not going to undergo an alternative civil service?

- AGS is good when a person has no education yet, there is no work for which he holds and in which he wants to develop. When all this is, an alternative civil service may not be suitable. This is not the most paid, unskilled work. That is, a person who has received a higher education, sometimes even at the expense of the state budget, should stop developing in his profession for 21 months. I believe that this is pointless both for the person himself and for society. Therefore, I promote the idea of ​​a complete refusal of service: "neither military nor civilian."

In this case, the application for the AGS should be provocative. Your goal is to knock out the draft commission so that it must refuse you.

You can write that an alternative civilian service is an important tool that allows you not to get into the army to people whose beliefs contradicts this. But this tool is part of the draft system. AGS would not be if there were no compulsory military service. “I believe that the draft system is very harmful to society. The imposition of military service greatly militarizes society as a whole, ”all this can be described in the statement.

I also really liked the thought of Ain Rand that the state cannot make a person risk his life and health. He can go to this by his own decision, the command of conscience. You cannot force it to this. And the army, in fact, is doing this.

“Since I have such views, dear members of the draft commission, I ask you to make a decision to free me from the call and the alternative civil service. If you cannot do this ... "

- Can they?

- They cannot. The legislation does not imply such a decision. But you can ask or make an illegal decision, or at least replace military service with the AGS.

In order to confuse the draft commission even more, you can come to a meeting with a large support team, discuss, shoot a meeting on the camera. Given the fact that the draft commissions are configured to prohibit shooting, perhaps the case will not reach your application and they will immediately refuse you. This is what you need.

Then you go to challenge the refusal in court, lose, file an appeal. From the moment you filed a lawsuit, the decision of the draft commission to refuse to replace military service on the AGS is suspended. Accordingly, calls cannot be held against you. While the courts are going, the call ends.

In the next six months, you again submit a maximalist statement - and it all starts again. In the end, the military registration and enlistment office will simply get tired of going to court and prefer not to pull you anymore.

- Is it safe?

“The worst thing that can happen,” they will replace military service on the AGS, although you did not want to. One person whom we consulted had it. Apparently, he did not suffer enough the draft commission.

- The beliefs against military service are usually pacifist, and now for such statements you can fall under the persecution. How to be with it?

- This is the main question that worries people after [ “Special operation” began. But I believe that anti -war beliefs must be written in a statement on the AGS.

Dry rations of conscripts while sending from the assembly point to scientific Rotifoto: Sergey Savostyanov / TASS

There were cases when people pointed out that they were against the so -called their own, consider it wrong and unfair. For one such conscript from Ufa, the military commissar wrote a denunciation. But the policeman did not find an administrative offense in his actions . The Code of Administrative Offenses says: "Public actions aimed at discrediting the use of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation." And the application to state bodies is not considered public action.

Another conscript, from the Krasnodar Territory, wrote a statement on the AGS, substantiating him with anti -war views. At a meeting of the draft commission, he also actively spoke out against the “special operation”. The funny thing is that he was replaced by military service with an alternative civilian, but after the meeting, a policeman who was part of the commission wrote a swear. In relation to the guy, they opened an administrative case of discrediting the army, he was appointed a fine. He did not have time to appeal him, because he left the country. I don’t know about other similar cases.

Whether to write in a statement about your pacifist beliefs depends on the person himself. Does he feel the need for this? If I were a conscript, I would have such a need. It seems to me that this has a certain educational moment for those who will read the application. They have a head, they are able to perceive the position of the conscript. Perhaps secretly they sympathize with her, they are simply afraid to talk about it. Maybe something will move in them. This is important for reducing general aggression, militarism in the country.

- And if it does not move?

- Well, that means it will not move - what to do. In any case, this is an opportunity to legally show representatives of the state that there are people who do not approve of the so -called own.

"The policeman begins to be sad"

- The call is already coming. Suppose a person has a reason not to get into it: student, medical certificate, AGS. How to avoid illegal involvement in the army?

- This is our sore spot. Even if you have no grounds for delay or medical certificates, a violent call is not provided for by law. If you have a fundamental position, they cannot call it all the more.

In Moscow, a violent call often occurs according to the following scheme. If a person has committed an administrative offense in the field of military registration, then the commissioner has the right to institute administrative production and apply to the police with a request to bring a person to draw up a protocol for him. Therefore, the military commissars are sucked out of the finger, take from the ceiling and massively stamped these appeals about the bringing of people to the police. Even if they did not commit any offenses, if no business was initiated. Based on these lists, people are detained and delivered first to the police, and then to the military registration and enlistment office. There, instead of a person’s protocol, they are going to call on one day: they are forced to undergo a medical board - and then he is in the army. This is illegal , but evil is happening.

For the prevention of raids, we are very advised to arrange a representative power of attorney for loved ones, it is better for several at once ( there is a sample of the power of attorney in the DSO catalog. - Approx. TD) . These are not necessarily relatives-the main thing is that a person is ready to save you if something happens to you. Select the notary to which you will go, send it by e -mail a sample, your passport data and data from your principals. They will be able to represent your interests in all state bodies, including the military registration and enlistment office, draft commission, and medical institutions. When the document is ready, ask for a certified copy.

Issuing uniforms before sending conscripts for the military service: Donat Sorokin / TASS

We advise this copy, together with copies of other documents, we always advise you to carry with you in the “security folder” (what documents should be in the folder described in the DSO catalog. - Approx. TD) . No need to walk with the original passport. In addition to documents in the folder, there may be excerpts from the Constitution, the methodological recommendations of the DSO - all that will help to feel more confident.

If you are stopped by the police and asks to present documents, you must first make sure that the conversation does not continue one on one. Otherwise, the police will consider that no one will know if they perform some illegal actions with you. Say: “Well, I’ll show all the documents now, I’ll only quickly warn you that I’m lingering.” And immediately call your person.

It is important to identify a policeman by phone. You can say so: “Hello, I’m linger a little, now I’m talking with a police officer with a breast sign of such and such a metro station.”

Then you ask the confidant to hang on the line and simultaneously show the police a copy from your folder. Comment on everything that happens, for example: “Here is a copy of my statement to the AGS, here is a copy of the answer that it has been received, so I demand a summons to the meeting of the draft commission.”

The policeman begins to be sad. If he says that you have on his lists and you need to deliver at the request of the military commissar, ask to show this appeal.

You can try to photograph the document - say that this is needed for your lawyer. From the photograph, you can then file an application with the court or a complaint against the military commissar for the illegal ruling of the drive to the military prosecutor's office. We can not always win the court, but at least the next time the military commissar will be more careful with you.

- Does the conversation help with such preparation? Are the police lagging behind?

- I have never met a situation that a person with a folder of security, talking like this with a police officer, ends up in the military enlistment office. Usually security forces are not ready for this.

But if you were still twisted, stuffed and delivered to the military registration and enlistment office, your loved ones should run there by this moment. With a power of attorney, they are required to let them go. It is good if you know the name of the members of the draft commission (you can take care of this in advance). Demand from them to familiarize you with the materials of administrative production.

In Moscow, from one guy whom we consulted, the military commissar escaped during such a conversation. Instead, he sent a legalist girl, she began to consider his business and said that she did not see objective grounds for his drive. There were several more similar situations. Somewhere, dad managed to come and intervene for his son. A girlfriend with a power of attorney came running to one guy. At first, employees of the military registration and enlistment office did not let her in. She immediately called the military prosecutor's office and called the police. The employees arrived completely stunned. She wrote a statement on her knee: it was impossible to leave for the department and leave the conscript of one. In the end, the guy was released. The military enlistment office felt pressure from all sides.

In addition to the safety folder, carry a spare button phone with you. It should have a SIM card with phones of people important to you and instances that you can complain about. There were cases when a person was delivered to the military registration and enlistment office and took the phone from him under the pretext that supposedly "it is impossible to use smartphones here." But when a person is without communication, it is impossible to help him.

In addition, when the call began, explain to loved ones how to enter your account on “State Services”. Through the "State Services" you can file an application with the court and send some complaints on your behalf.

"The agenda does not bite"

- Can a person hand the agenda right on the street?

- The agenda itself does not bite. She is not terrible, but a rash reaction. It is necessary to watch how filled out, what event the event is called (the types of summons and the rules for filling them are transferred in the DSO catalog. - Approx. TD) .

First of all, look at the date. The summons should be handed in advance, usually three days before the call. If yesterday’s date is on the agenda or it is written that you need to appear at the military registration and enlistment office in two hours, then you can sign it, but make a postscript: “The agenda is handed over, not in accordance with the deadline, unforgettable in advance.”

If you are called to some strange events, write a complaint. For example, if you have already submitted an application for the AGS, but you are invited to a medical examination (after it you may be recognized as suitable and sent to the army). You are not obliged to come to the military registration and enlistment office on an illegal agenda.

- And if everything is in order with the agenda, but a person is not ready to communicate in the military enlistment office? He has no medical documents, statements on the AGS.

- For failure to appear on the agenda, there can be good reasons. Write in response: “I got sick. When I am recovering, I will present a copy of the document on disability. ” During this time, you can apply for AGS. After that, you send medical documents and remind you that you filed an application for an alternative civil service. Therefore, now you are asking to give you a new agenda - already at a meeting of the draft commission - and observe the order that is provided for in the Law on AGS.

- Electronic agendas are being sent now?

- So far we are observing this only in the capital. Muscovites are invited to a new single draft item (EPP). Mayor Sobyanin signed a decree on his creation right before the spring appeal. However, the legislation on military duty was not changed to this document.

Previously, Moscow had draft commissions on municipal districts and military commissariats in districts. The military commissar was responsible for the storage and conduct of personal affairs. He accepted citizens, was responsible for the summons. Now all personal affairs should be brought to a single point. Who is responsible for them? Are documents calculated? It is incomprehensible. In business, personal data, medical secrets were stored. All this was handed over to some third parties.

Another point that worries everyone: when you enter the EPP, you are given a card, and you follow the route. Не пройдя все кабинеты, вы не можете выйти. А если что-то пошло не так, если нарушения? На сайте ЕПП написано, что и мобильные телефоны нужно сдавать на входе, хотя законных оснований для этого нет .

— Что делать москвичам? Избегать этого единого пункта?

— Мы считаем, что каждому призывнику стоит отправить запрос в Министерство обороны, военную прокуратуру и другие инстанции. В них нужно уточнить: какой статус имеет единый призывной пункт? считается ли он структурой Минобороны? есть ли нормативный документ, регламентирующий деятельность ЕПП? На каком основании личные дела переданы туда (по закону они должны храниться в военном комиссариате)? почему меня вызывают в какой-то ЕПП, если должны в военкомат? Требуйте провести проверку законности вызова в такое учреждение.

Если вы готовы прийти в военкомат, то можете явиться по повестке. Только не сдавайте телефон и возьмите с собой доверенное лицо.

Но большинство правозащитников склоняется к тому, что лучше вообще не ходить в ЕПП. Вместо этого вы можете написать жалобу на повестку в учреждение, статус которого вам не ясен, подписанную ненадлежащим лицом. Уже с ответами на жалобы можно идти в суд.

Если начнут приходить штрафы за неявку, не спешите их оплачивать. Штрафы тоже можно обжаловать. Мы в ДСО будем искать юристов, которые готовы помочь в этом деле.

«Надежный способ перестать воевать»

— Частичная мобилизация формально все еще не завершена. Как это влияет на правила безопасности?

— Если вам пришла повестка и вы понимаете, что вас хотят призвать по мобилизации, тоже можно подать заявление на АГС. Напишите во все инстанции, что военная служба противоречит вашим убеждениям (инструкция, как писать обращения, есть в каталоге ДСО. — Прим. ТД) .

Да, закон об альтернативной гражданской службе касается только призывников. Но Конституция, в которой прописано право на АГС, распространяется на всех. В статье 59 прописано , что гражданин в случае, если его убеждениям или вероисповеданию противоречит несение военной службы, а также в иных установленных федеральным законом случаях имеет право на замену ее альтернативной гражданской. Военная служба по мобилизации тоже должна подпадать под эту статью. И на период военных сборов человек становится военнослужащим. Контракт — это тоже военная служба.

Конституция — базовый закон, и то, что государство не прописало, как реализовать закрепленные в ней права в нормативных актах, не повод эти права нарушать. Убеждения совести могут возникнуть у каждого человека. Не только у призывника, но и у запасника, и у офицера, и у генерала (подробнее о том, как действовать во время мобилизации, описано в каталоге ДСО. — Прим. ТД) .

— Как вести себя врачам, которые не хотят на фронт?

— Теоретически врачей тоже могут мобилизовать. Им нужно действовать точно так же, как и военным.

Иногда говорят, что врачей мобилизуют не для убийств, а, наоборот, чтобы спасать жизни. Но, во-первых, врач подчиняется командованию. И могут быть ситуации, когда ему прикажут взять в руки оружие. Во-вторых, военный врач не только лечит, но и проводит медицинское освидетельствование. То есть признает людей годными к военной службе — фактически отправляет их в бой. Все это может противоречить вашим убеждениям.

— Если врач или военнослужащий уже на фронте, как оттуда выбраться?

— Здесь нашим основным инструментом становится заявление с требованием провести военную врачебную комиссию. И провести ее объективно. Возможно, на ней человеку поставят категорию годности, освобождающую его от службы. Заявления об этом могут писать и родственники военнослужащего (шаблон есть в каталоге ДСО. — Прим. ТД) .

Комплект обуви для призывников на сборном пунктеФото: Дмитрий Ахмадуллин / ИА «Победа26» / ТАСС

Рабочий вариант — во время отпуска сходить к частному психиатру. С большой вероятностью он зафиксирует у вас посттравматическое стрессовое расстройство (ПТСР). Уже с ним можно снова требовать провести врачебную комиссию (более подробные инструкции, как уйти из армии, описаны в каталоге ДСО. — Прим. ТД) .

Иногда самый надежный способ перестать воевать — недолгое самовольное оставление части. Это воинское преступление. Но за оставление части до 10 дней дают небольшие уголовные сроки: обычно это два года пять месяцев, два года и 10 месяцев колонии-поселения. Мы знаем военнослужащего, который пошел на это и явился к следователю, — ему дали полтора года. Я общалась с мамой одного из таких людей, она говорила: «По крайней мере он рядом, в этом же городе, я могу ездить к нему на свидания». Мне кажется, это хороший способ прекратить воевать, когда ситуация безвыходная.

«Силы на сопротивление насилию»

— Вы координируете работу ДСО, будучи в России. Are you scared?

— Мне кажется, когда я говорю людям: «Будьте смелыми и не служите в армии», находясь в России вместе с ними, вес этих слов гораздо больше. Я рада, что я не уехала. Хотя друзья меня уговаривали.

Из команды ДСО многие уехали. Есть те, кто остается в России — но старается не публиковать свое имя и лицо. And they do the right thing. А мне, как говорится, поздно рожу прятать. Я уже везде засветилась. Наоборот, надо выступать открыто.

Но, конечно, я стараюсь не совершать того, что послужит основанием для уголовного дела. Например, я не рассказываю вещи, которые можно трактовать как распространение фейков. Для этого есть независимые СМИ. Моя задача — вдохновить людей на то, чтобы они защищали свое право не убивать. И помогать им.

Этим и занимается ДСО. У нас есть бот , в котором волонтеры отвечают на вопросы, помогают и поддерживают. Наша команда приводит в порядок и обновляет справочные материалы. Мы регулярно проводим видеотрансляции. Я очень благодарна людям, которые занимаются всем этим на энтузиазме.

- How many are there now?

— Активно работающих около 10 человек. Но их количество все время меняется. Когда началась мобилизация, много ребят, которые когда-то получили от нас помощь, написали, что хотят помогать другим. Они звонили, отвечали на сообщения.

— Вы как-то проверяете волонтеров на входе?

— Да, конечно, у нас есть система верификации.

— Помимо информационной помощи, консультаций через бот ДСО помогает людям? Например, обращаться в суд.

— Большую часть заявлений в суд люди подают сами — у нас есть материалы о том, как это делать. В случае экстренных и значимых дел мы помогаем. Если возникает вопрос об уголовном преследовании человека, ищем ему адвоката.

Вообще, может показаться, что люди просто изучают наши материалы и задают нам дополнительные вопросы. Часто все происходит не так. У людей бывает паника, они плачут. Страх, тревога мешают им сосредоточиться.

Наша задача — не просто сказать человеку, где посмотреть какой-то материал. Важно, чтобы у него появилась уверенность. Мамы призывников часто говорят мне: «Вы вселяете уверенность и спокойствие». И сами люди подтверждают: «Я понял, что я делаю. Теперь мне спокойнее».

Я считаю, это наша самая главная задача — уменьшить страх в людях. Такой плохой страх, который подавляет и заставляет подчиняться всяким неправильным вещам. И дать силы на сопротивление насилию.