Maxim Kondratiev : “ In the camp you are a creature without rights ”

Maxim Kondratyev , activist, founder of the human rights project Avtozak LIVE , which covered protests and human rights violations in Russia, helped Russians persecuted because of their political views.

Maxim left Russia in 2022, after the outbreak of a full-scale war in Ukraine, and requested political asylum in the Netherlands.

I lived in a refugee camp for a long time, and then received a residence permit. Now the activist is helping Ukrainians detained in Russia.

Tell us about yourself.

— I’m Maxim, I do human rights work, and sometimes I write texts. Right now I’m helping Ukrainian prisoners of war in Russia.

How did the war affect your life?

“She rebuilt it as much as possible. I had to start a new life, so to speak. Here. Well, I was forced to change not just the city, but the country and simply get used to the new society again, live again.

How did you show your civic position in Russia?

— Well, we did the “Avtozak Live” project, which was about the protests. Well, I think that this is a manifestation of my civic position - I helped those detained, in fact, I myself participated in protests. Made some contribution to the development of civil society. Let it sound, probably, somehow loudly.

Tell us how the Avtozak Live project came about and why it closed?

— We created the project in 2019 after, well, during the protests in support of Ivan Golunov. Well, initially it was not intended to be some kind of big project at all. We just decided to do it online from rallies, from departments. Here. And then it so happened that we started reporting from the inside - from the paddy wagons.

There is no there. I tell you again, someone open the notes and write in your last name, first name, patronymic. Pass all yours around, we will send them one message. I'm a lawyer.

They lived up to the name and subsequently, after the start of the war, they began to engage in such serious human rights activities, as it seems to me, they began to help those accused in criminal cases. These cases were related to terrorism, arson of military registration and enlistment offices, and sabotage. So we helped those who are accused of these serious charges. Well, we found lawyers, that is, we helped them with defense in the courts, we helped their relatives with some kind of humanitarian aid, and they themselves directly.

Well, what is the result? Here, after closing, we are now passing sentences on the defendants. Well, they asked, if I’m not mistaken, 23 years old, but they gave 16. Can this be considered help? Well, I think so too, yes. Our project closed at the end of the twenty-fifth year. Well, it’s just trivial, because there was no money, strength, or any energy to continue doing this. And since this did not bring any income, well, we acted purely on enthusiasm for the most part. The enthusiasm is gone, and so is the money. That's why we closed the project.

When and why did you leave Russia?

- Well, I left in March of twenty-two. Well, why, it seems to me, is a strange question, yes, in a sense. Well, because the war started, there was a risk, a real risk of criminal prosecution. I will say this, when there was the prospect of being imprisoned for 4 years, it probably wasn’t so scary.

When the prospect of being imprisoned for 8 years arose, well, this was, well, for me personally, some kind of threshold that I was not ready for... which I was not ready to cross. That’s why I packed my things, put sneakers in there, a lot of T-shirts, 13-12, and that’s it. So, 3 hours before departure, I bought a plane ticket and flew away.

How did you end up in the Netherlands?

— I applied for asylum, flew by plane from Armenia. And since then I’ve been living there, they gave me a residence permit and protection. I didn't choose the Netherlands, it actually came out on its own. This was the only possible option to move somewhere further with some clear prospects. I had to fly there. I don't regret anything. I love this country very much. I consider it my home at the moment, despite the fact that I want to return to Russia.

What happened in the refugee camp?

— Probably for those who lived in the regions... I lived in the regions of Russia. There are a lot of old dorms there, with one corridor, with rooms on the sides, a common kitchen, and a common toilet. That's about it. Well, only with people who don’t speak your language in a country where you yourself can’t speak the language - well, maybe English, but in general... well, that is, you’re a stranger. This, well, also produces some effect. Here. And, well, I lived there for about two years. And this is difficult, but taking into account... in comparison with the Russian pre-trial detention center, well, it’s probably better.

Murders, suicides, thefts, some holidays. Well, that is, I had a neighbor across the room who lived there, a Russian-speaking man hanged himself, and there, I don’t know, every two months, consistently, some portraits with candles were displayed, indicating that either someone had been killed, or someone had committed suicide. Here. Well, people just live, waiting for something unknown. And while you live there, you just have an endless wait. Just waiting for something unknown. It seems like you understand that you are waiting, it seems like you understand that this is about to happen, but it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen. And you live and just withdraw into yourself.

As long as you live in this institution, you can go out. Well, that is, this is not a prison, this is exactly what a hostel is. That is, you can go out, you can move around, you must check in, which, in my opinion, is also quite strange. You can drive, the main thing is not to get lost in sight. Well, follow the law, which not everyone did there.

What is your current legal status? How did the legalization go?

— In general, Europe has a different system. And in the Netherlands, after you receive asylum, you have the right to apply for social housing. That is, they rent out an apartment to you, well, in the same way as they rent it to locals. Here. And you live there with an indefinite contract and begin to take integration courses, that is, learn the language, society, labor markets and everything connected with it.

Well, the day does not come, because there are so many days, and they never come. And you receive a letter that you have been scheduled for an interview to begin with. Well, that is, first they consider the case, they generally consider your possibility of staying in the country. Are you really in danger? It is different for citizens of different countries. If there are countries where you are given asylum on a general basis, simply because you are fleeing, for example, from a war... The Russians don’t have this, but there they look at your personal case, and you need to prove to yourself that you have a fact of persecution.

And this could last, I don’t know, three interviews, it’s called, that is, three meetings with representatives of the migration service. Here. And these meetings last there for 8 hours, 10 hours. And during these meetings you are asked questions, sometimes the same ones in a circle. So you answer, well, that’s it, they send you to wait, then they send you a “chain letter”, you go, get a card and start waiting for housing.

Well, not even housing, but the municipality to which you will be assigned. You don’t know this in advance, you can’t choose anything. Well, that’s where they’ll tell you, and that’s where you’re going. When you are assigned to the municipality, it accepts you, you receive a letter from there that we kind of invite you to view the apartment, there, I don’t know, next week - that’s it. And you go, look at housing, and then you have two weeks. Well, “look” doesn’t mean that you choose, you were invited, shown, you signed an agreement, and you have two weeks to move there. That's it, you are a full-fledged member of society. Well, then you can work and take integration courses. Well, that is, you then become, well, like, a full-fledged member of society. And while you live in the camp, you are simply a creature with absolutely no rights. That is, you do not exist at all, either for the tax service or for the state. Well, you just exist, but who you are is not entirely clear.

How do you help Ukrainian prisoners of war?

— I don’t communicate directly with my relatives. I had the functions of, well, osinta, that is, finding their location, well, and developing infrastructure for help, that is, to make it more efficient. It’s just palliative care, that is, I don’t know, from making a transfer to sending a letter, finding a lawyer, I don’t know, finding a location, suggesting something to a relative, well, something like that.

Well, that is, in fact, everything that we did, helping political prisoners, well, we do almost the same thing for prisoners of war, because in fact, for the most part, there are no differences there. And especially if they were convicted, that is, they are just as convicted, just citizens of Ukraine, as it were. Well, the only thing, yes, is that their deadlines, of course, are probably long, but already in 2026, I think, they have leveled themselves out.

Well, looking for prisoners of war is a separate quest altogether. Because their location... the problem is not even to find a prisoner of war, but the problem is to understand in general whether he is alive, whether he is a prisoner of war. And yes, indeed, there are, well, many relatives who have been there for several years already... well, that’s how long the war has been going on, a man disappeared there, I don’t know, in the twenty-second or twenty-third year, they still can’t find him. That is, well, everyone already seems to understand that he has probably already been captured. This is probably the most difficult thing in communication. But I'm not involved in communication. No, my job is to look for them. Here. Well, at the moment it’s more about supporting those we know where they are. Here. Well, despite this, we kind of look for them and find some. Here. But the main part of all requests there is direct help with correspondence there. Well, because you simply can’t pay for a letter there to send to a colony. There, I don’t know, transfer of money and so on.

Why did many Russians calmly accept the war? Is this propaganda or fear?

“I don’t agree that there were no rallies, that the Russians somehow accepted it passively. Usually, it seems to me, those people who accuse Russians of being passive are people like us who live outside of Russia, and for whom it is very easy to express their position. When you live in a country where they give you a sentence for the price tags as for terrorism in some European country, this does not mean that people are suddenly all in favor if no one says anything.

It seems to me that people are just, well, afraid, apprehensive. Well, the protests did take place at the very beginning. I remember it very well. And then it seemed that, well, not only some small group was against this war. Taking into account the shock on the first day, I clearly remember that a lot of people came out in Moscow, despite police brutality, despite some threats that fell that same day. A lot of people came out in Moscow. People came to the funeral of Alexei Navalny, well, it seems to me, with anti-war views, and there were slogans there too. And, well, in some moments like this, anti-war protest manifests itself. Here. But to say that the Russians accepted this war, well, it seems to me that this is not entirely correct.

What scenarios for ending the war do you see?

— Honestly, I’m tired of this war, well, it’s reached such enormous proportions. Not only me, I think. It seems, well, before, let me say this, before it seemed to me that this is the completion, here it is, here it is, I went to tell everyone: “Now, now it will be, now it will be,” but now I just don’t see it. Well, unfortunately, for me some news is passing in the background. Although sometimes I open it and am horrified, something happens again. I don't see the end of this war. I would like to, I want to see it, but I don’t understand how it should happen.

I think that with the death of Putin, not only the war, but also the repressive history would end. Or at least weakened a little. Well, only for natural reasons, if he dies. About Shoigu’s coup... When we read, we should not forget about the warnings of foreign intelligence about the outbreak of war. Here. And it would probably be good if this military coup took place. Here. But I think this is unlikely.

Why does Putin need this war?

“I am one of those people, probably, who share a very unpopular opinion, although perhaps a popular one, that this man really imagines himself as some kind of ruler of the world, that he can, that means... that, well, in his head... it’s only in his head, which means that there is some kind of Russia that needs to be reunited, and therefore, restore some kind of justice, which is also only in his head. Well, in all these speeches, it means that it is beneficial for him to remain in power... But it seems to me that this is not entirely true. More precisely, not at all like that.

Probably, the fact that the war affects the duration, even, probably, Putin’s rating and the length of days that he remains in power, is probably a consequence, but, in my opinion, this is not the reason. Unfortunately, perverts live in our world. Vladimir Putin, in my opinion, is one of them. It’s just that this pervert somehow got to power and is torturing several tens of millions of people with his perverted fantasies.

Don't you think that the world is on the verge of a global catastrophe?

— Well, what is considered a global catastrophe? It seems to me that in the middle of the last century people probably thought the same way. I don’t know, there, at the beginning of the last century, well, people probably thought the same way. It’s just that, in my opinion, it’s more digital now. We can open the news about this every morning and read about it. That's why it's getting closer. We just see it all, but wars, certain events, they always happened.

Here. Well, plus this, of course, concerns us, this is done on our behalf. Well, it’s hard not to notice it. But it is not just done on our behalf, it is done in relation to our neighbors with whom we all have connections. In general, to answer the question, it seems to me that this has always been the case. It’s just that now we have begun to notice it better.

What are you afraid of?

“I’m not afraid of freedom, both for myself and for everyone else. Oh, no, it's too pretentious actually. Yes. I'm afraid of losing my freedom. I'm afraid that freedom may disappear.

What gives hope?

— It seems to me that hope is about some kind of motivation. Well, that is, that you do something because you hope for something. My biggest motivator is being angry at bad people. What gives me hope, probably, is the thought that we can change something, the thought that someday I will be able to return back and live in the country in which I was born, which I love and which I want to change, as it seems to me, for the better.