Sasha Kazantseva : “ The boys don’t apologize. And they don’t repent "

Sasha Kazantseva is a sex educator, LGBTQ activist , host of the telegram channel “ Washed My Hands, ” and author of the bestseller “Sex Itself.” Born at the height of perestroika. I had the opportunity to observe both the country’s movement towards democracy and its rollback. Now he lives in exile. Sasha talks about why the state first chooses vulnerable groups as enemies, and how this threatens the majority, about fears of being oneself and the need for repentance in the “Eyewitnesses” project.

Tell us about yourself.

— My name is Sasha Kazantseva. I am an LGBT activist, blogger, writer. I am also a terrorist according to the Russian state and was sentenced there to nine years for everything. Foreign agent, in general, such identities. What did I do before the war? I was involved in sex education, I made the largest Russian-language blog, in short, about LGBT people, and not only sex education. I wrote a book about it, which became a bestseller until it was banned in the Russian Federation. I’m also writing a book about how the Kremlin and the Russian state invest and generally contribute and contribute to anti-LGBTQ campaigns around the world. For example, in African countries. So, it would seem, yes, this is how they do everything they can do.

I am a schoolgirl by education, I finished the eleventh grade with difficulty, because they taught poorly at that school, and I didn’t like going there. But I always really liked studying, I sat and read books, I went to the fourteenth floor, my house was fourteen floors. I went to the fourteenth floor, sat there on the radiator, read books, then went home, like, I went to school. This is what life was like as a child. And then childhood ended.

When and how did you get into activism?

— I’ve been involved in activism, it’s scary to say, since the mid-2000s. Here. And for a long time I was involved in anarcho-activism, all kinds of media activism. And in general, I really liked media activism and doing something, in short, on the Internet and writing texts. And for a long time I dreamed of starting a blog, but I was very shy. Because, damn it, nothing is clear. Imposter syndrome, life is generally scary.

And then somehow I thought something like that, I thought that I really, absolutely want, I would like most of all to say something about the LGBT community, because I am very inspired by this topic and I really want to talk about sex education. So I decided, I was already 30 years old. Until I was 30, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, what I wanted to become when I grew up. I’m like: I want to become a LGBT sex educator. And just like that, everything went and went.

You are a child of perestroika. Before your eyes, the country has moved towards democracy, freedoms and rights and back. What do you think about this throwback?

“Literally the other day, a month ago, I was overcome by consciousness. I watched something about North Korea, and there, perhaps, the people who filmed it asked the question, “How can this happen?” We don’t choose where to be born, and someone was born in such an interesting situation. And it’s not random at all, we don’t choose it. And then it dawned on me, I thought: “Lord, it’s like I was born in a closed country.” Well, in the USSR, that is, as if I was born there. This is completely random. Then we were lucky that the borders were opened.

One of the reasons why I left - well, there were a lot, and, probably, the main one was the impending arrival of the cops and landing. But one of the reasons is that active rumors began to circulate at the beginning of 2022 after the start of a full-scale invasion, during the first few weeks there, that the borders would be closed. And I was so scared that the borders would be closed, because everything that I... well, all my ideas about the repressions that took place in the USSR, for me they are very connected with the theme that people could not leave anywhere, could not escape anywhere. That is, the space is sealed.

I think that in some ways, as a lesbian, as an LGBTQ person, I was lucky that in the nineties I had no idea that LGBT was some kind of taboo topic. Firstly, it was written about in every magazine, yes, it was exoticized, yes, now I would look at it and say, well, this is generally presented very incorrectly. But as a child, I had the feeling that this was just some part of everyday life. I even remember, I was 10 years old, it was ninety-six. And for some reason I was sure that people are divided 50/50. There are girls who like boys, and there are girls who like girls. It also happens to boys that I will grow up to be someone, they also don’t know what I will grow up to be.

And I got this idea because I looked at some magazines, televisions, newspapers, sources of information. I understand that modern teenagers do not have such luxury. Feeling safe no matter who you were born as. Of course, security - well, this is a very conditional story, because, of course, it cannot be said that people in Postsovka were completely safe, but I definitely felt more informational freedom. At the same time, it’s great that modern children have TikTok and the Internet, and they will see enough there, I hope, and find some kind of support for themselves.

Why, while dismantling rights and freedoms, did the Russian state choose the LGBT community as one of its enemies?

— There are several reasons that seem to me to be the main ones. The first is that anti-LGBT rhetoric and the emergence, on the contrary, of rhetoric about traditional values ​​intensified after the annexation of Crimea. Russia annexes Crimea and begins to lose allies. All this is criticized in the West. And at this moment they need some new allies. No matter how sanctions are introduced, new allies are needed. It’s clear what it was possible to be friends with the West about. Why should such a guy be friends and seem authoritative? With people who are not associated with the West, oppose yourself to the Western world and say: “There is Western ideology, and there is our good, correct ideology of traditional values.”

How can we simply explain what traditional values ​​are? Because no one will understand what traditional values ​​are. It’s convenient to explain this in a simple way, especially in large numbers, through emotions. How can you quickly trigger emotions? Sex, children, scary gays will come, and your child will have his sex changed in the toilet. This is roughly what this narrative sounds like. And he’s simply, oh my God, being driven to the tail and the mane.

For example, there is such an opinion among human rights activists. This is an opinion, but I think it’s quite interesting that in 2013 we adopted the first law on LGBT propaganda, and in the fall of 2022 we adopted a second law against LGBT propaganda. It would seem, why? We already have one at home. We have one at home because mobilization has begun and people are unhappy. How can we distract attention? The gays worked last time. We bring gays into the arena. Oh my god, LGBT propaganda. No, damn it, they are corrupting our children. Western influence.

But it didn’t work, because gays are already on the sidelines in 2022, especially against the backdrop of everything that’s happening. And then Putin starts mentioning transgender people everywhere, because transgender people are something fresh. Transformers, he usually says, in the middle of 2023 they pass an anti-trans law, a law that completely prohibits transgender transition, that is, people are deprived of basic medical care. This is a very scary story. Here. But there is an opinion among human rights activists that this law was adopted, quickly invented and adjusted, because the anti-gay law did not work. It was necessary to find someone else for brighter emotions.

The second point is that the image of an internal enemy works well for us. In general, Putin has this idea that the state needs a state ideology. And this is how we have an ideology—traditional values ​​and some other internal enemy against which the population can also be consolidated. And gays are also very suitable for us, because, well, in the minds of these people, as I understand it, gays are people whom no one should love. Especially if we say that gays are pedophiles. They also use this narrative very widely. On the other hand, they seem to have sufficient media weight. That is, not to say that, my God, who are they anyway, but they don’t pose a threat. We didn't even see them. Look, they are everywhere, on TV, look at what series Netflix is ​​filming.

It’s interesting, by the way, to throw a bridge here that if some demonized group seems to lack media weight, it can be artificially given. That is, this is what Trump is doing now and this whole Trump story with trans people in the USA. That is, trans people did not worry about anyone. One percent of the population, they somehow live there. Well, in short, people simply don’t know who is not connected, like, with the trans topic, how trans people live. Well, they don’t notice, as if not. And this one percent of the population becomes such a turning point. Who will you vote for? For a politician who is against trans people, or for a politician who is for trans people? Here is the one percent of the population that no one noticed. No one cared.

And the third point is that some people simply make a career out of this too. That is purely business, nothing personal. Well, one of the most striking examples, of course, is Milonov, we all know, but he is such a very grotesque character, but there are also some who, perhaps, speak out less odiously, but consistently promote anti-abortion rhetoric, some kind of anti-LGBT history. All sorts of bills about schoolgirls who will be paid money if they get pregnant, preferably early.

Here. And, by the way, it is important to mention that modern researchers of this whole movement - anti-LGBTQ, anti-abortion, anti-women's rights - all this is united under the umbrella, under the umbrella term “anti-gender movements” and “anti-gender politics”. That is, as it were, all gender issues that in one way or another relate to conditionally gender rights. And we may have the right of a woman, a gender-vulnerable group, to have an abortion, and the right of a trans person to undergo all appropriate medical procedures in accordance with ICD-11 - all this falls under this umbrella. Therefore, absolutely the same people who fight against transgender people, lesbians, gays, and so on are fighting abortion.

What does this say about the state?

- About the state. I’m not talking now about people as a state, but I’m talking now about the state as an apparatus. About the state as an apparatus he says that you […]. Everything is very bad for you. Well, very bad. Very bad.

How does the state treat vulnerable groups?

“It shows how it is generally ready to treat people, how it will treat everyone tomorrow. Well, this classic quote about the fact that first they came for this group, I was silent because I didn’t belong to it, then for another and so on. Well, that's how it works. This is true. Mechanics are tested on weaker groups, which can then be applied to everyone, because, unfortunately, violence, state violence, it works in such a way that if a person, a state, an apparatus does not see the shores and constantly loses sight of them, then there is no reason not to expand this violence further.

And it is also important to say that in a sense, in 2022, when the state began to introduce new laws, all sorts of anti-humanistic, anti-human, new repressive measures to apply to all those who disagree, to increase the number of political prisoners once again, then ordinary citizens were reduced to the status in which LGBT people lived in Russia since 2014, because we lived and we all the time understood that on the one hand, it seems like something is possible... well, that is, practically for They won’t come to everyone, like they won’t grab everyone, there won’t be enough grip. On the one side. On the other hand, theoretically, you know all the time that there is something to attract you for. This is true.

I really like this story from some cartoon or comic book from a hundred years ago. There was such a plot that the state forbade people everything, forbade it, and at some point says: “And we forbid them to breathe.” And at a press conference they are asked, why can’t they just breathe? You can't breathe anymore. They say: “Well, of course you can, but you always know that you always have something to jail for.”

Why did Putin start a war with Ukraine?

— Because Ukraine is also such an embodiment of the terrible Western world, the one that threatens, well, firstly, Putin personally, his ego and some other psychological settings. Secondly - wonderful traditional Slavic values. Ukraine is a symbol of this approaching Western world, because it sticks out right here.

I find it very interesting to look through the lens of the intersection of motives for getting into Ukraine and the fact that the Russian state is actively at war with LGBT people. In general, LGBT people are one of the evidences that we, humanity, people can be very different, because in fact, some ideas about what is right, that marriage is a union of a man and a woman... In short, a woman should give birth, kitchen and borscht, and a man should be wow and not cry. Here you go. Who came up with this idea? What, you can’t? These are some very strange ideas. And if you answer the question intelligently: “Why not?”, then, well, perhaps, in short, the installation - there is something wrong with it. We are all diverse, we are all very unique.

Each and every one of us has some experience of experiencing ourselves as different or different. We all have experiences where we think: “Damn, I’m different in some way and maybe I’m a little embarrassed to say it because the boys will laugh.” This seems like a standard human experience, but we have it in a variety of areas where we feel worried about being who we are. If we stop feeling this shame for who we are, we feel more free, then it will be more difficult to control us, because we will brand our right to be ourselves, to think freely, to ask uncomfortable questions, because an LGBT person, in order to realize himself, goes through some... goes through some kind of uncomfortable questions, firstly, to himself, sincere and honest answers to them, because otherwise there is no it will work.

And secondly - and to the world, like: “Damn, if they fucked me here and said that the princess should always be with the prince and then they should have three children there, because the population should expand, in short, the population should expand, then maybe they’re fucking me somewhere else too?” Questions appear. And who benefits from the population asking questions? Not profitable. It is not beneficial for the population to have questions.

Why are you being persecuted by the Russian state?

- So I have three articles. The first is fake news about the army, the second is LGBT extremism. And the third is failure to comply with the duties of a foreign agent. I don't put a die. Very bad. 9 years in a general regime colony.

How did the war change your life?

— I think it’s not like the life of Ukrainians and Ukrainian women. First of all, when answering this question, I think about the people in Ukraine. Well, things have changed for me too, of course. Well, for example, when the war came, I realized that I had no time for sex education at all. A full-scale war has begun. And everything that I have done since then, and all my life decisions there, such as leaving and some of my decisions, choices, what to do, they are one way or another, well, tied around what is happening... there is a war that Russia unleashed in Ukraine. And this is what accompanies me every day.

Here's how I changed it technically. Well, I left at the beginning of 2022, because I also converted my media platforms back then to, well, talking about what was happening, telling how to support Ukraine, how to support the Armed Forces of Ukraine, how to support the civilian population. That’s how I covered these events in general. And then they passed the law on fakes. I realized that I kind of couldn’t continue like this. Here. And what I want most now is to help the Ukrainians in some way. And so I left. Well, I had to somehow remake life there in an everyday way, but on the whole, it’s probably like that.

Why were there no mass protests against the war in Russia?

“A system has been created that little by little supports itself. They turned off the oxygen tap, turned it off, and then hop - except for the ears, nothing moves in the whole body, neither the arms nor the legs move. And such learned helplessness arises, which reproduces itself. That is, it is more difficult for each subsequent person to go out to protest if the previous one was detained before him. This detainee was somehow not supported enough. And in general, what follows is a very complicated story.

I think all the time—I would also be interested to hear experts talk about this—that, damn it, it must be very difficult when such a big country, well, that is, Russia in general, well, it’s kind of super-giant. And I have this... this idea, maybe I’m completely wrong, maybe I’m talking bullshit now, that it’s possible to consolidate and somehow unite and feel a sense of community with each other within a country that is smaller, easier than within a country that is larger. And we don’t even know each other.

Well, like, I lived in the city of St. Petersburg there for the main part of my conscious life. And I don’t know... well, like, I’m interested in how people live in Birobidzhan. It would be worth studying. Here. But I can't imagine it. This is the other side of the country, far away. Here. And in the middle there are also a lot of all sorts of people. And at the same time, people are still, well, exhausted there all the time by poverty and corruption. That is, it’s as if this oh, centipede, and it’s not clear how to coordinate its legs. Why such a gigantic country? What should we do with it anyway? Where is this going? And they, yes, still want to seize territory. Well, in short, my God. My God.

Is a democratic future possible in Russia?

— Questions about Russia for me immediately flow into the question: “What is our situation with the world in general?” That is, it is very difficult for me to think about Russia separately. And, probably, what my departure gave me was the fact that I began to meet many people from different countries, and the fact that in 2022 the voices of decolonial activists and activists began to sound louder. I also became acquainted with this history, I am getting acquainted, I am learning. That's what I began to see a lot more of the connections between processes around the world. There is a saying that no one is free until everyone is free. And I always really liked her. But here I somehow feel it even more deeply, that, damn it, we need to sort something out here with the whole world, because some stupid things are happening, all sorts of terrible things are happening.

What are you afraid of?

“What kind of guy is coming up, that’s what’s sitting there biting me on the butt, I don’t feel any fear.” I somehow feel that we can try to solve all the problems and all the crap. I wish there was less shit. I would like to do less of this. And it really infuriates me to do all this. Again, I can’t fucking imagine how angry Ukrainians are. Don't know.

But I’ll tell you about fear, in short. I think about fears. I have this theory that there is horror and there is fear. And one fear is so very animal, inevitable. I had such... I felt such fear, somehow a cop was choking me, and I peed myself. Well, I was young, I peed myself. I don’t know, maybe I would have peed myself now if I had been strangled. Sort of like that. Here. And I also felt it when I had a brain tumor. Here. And they told me there that I would die straight away. I was already preparing, that’s it, they said it was inoperable, and I also felt: damn, I don’t want to die so much.

That is, and at the same time, at some level, it wasn’t scary, but this animal danger - I think that anyone has experienced this, when, damn it, a crowd of National Guardsmen is running towards you, I don’t know, well, this fear is familiar, and there is no way to escape it. It's just that he sits very deep. And there is fear that can be managed, because it is a little bit, well, not at the level of choice, but you can work with it. Here. And there is more space for control by the conscious. And I think that from the first fears - well, they are there, and the second fear - well, we’ll decide, we’ll decide, or some other turd has arrived. Well, I wish there was less poop.

What's the hardest thing about emigrating?

— It seems to me that I was very lucky in terms of emigration. I don't have children. I moved alone. I moved to Lithuania. And there is a very... well, for those who moved for political reasons, at least a very friendly bureaucracy, for example. I know that it is difficult in Germany. Well, that is, in short, I don’t know, nothing is difficult for me in emigration in general, it’s just all easy-going. Again, well, I compare with different things that are happening in the world, that in Ukraine people are being shelled, there, I don’t know, in Afghanistan there is generally trash going on. In Russia, political prisoners are in prison. In Belarus, political prisoners are in prison. Here. And I just kind of took it and left. In short, something is simple for me.

I am emigrating... the war will last for a long time. I understand that as soon as Putin goes somewhere... the cat is out of the house and the mice start dancing, in short, that as soon as he goes somewhere, it’s as if no one will continue there. So I understood. Correct me if you are better at searching than I am. Here. But it seems to be already old, and probably not everyone there is happy. Maybe they will persecute him, I don’t know. In short, the pessimistic scenario is that, I don’t know, until Putin dies, he will die for a long time, for example, he will die there for five years. And the optimistic one - that suddenly it will end this year.

Is World War III likely?

— Well, I live in Lithuania. And in Lithuania, we all have these suitcases packed in case “Day X” is called in Lithuania. Here we have a terboron - I have a Lithuanian girlfriend in a terboron, in short, they train them there. Ukrainians come and teach. Well, that is, from within Lithuania, such a scenario is seen as, well, so acceptable - well, acceptable not in the sense from a moral point of view, in the sense that this could happen. That is, one cannot say that this is some kind of very unlikely story. This is a story that can happen, we need to prepare. This path is about the Baltic countries. And about the Third World War - they are fighting a lot, of course. Well, it seems that before there wasn’t much less fighting, it’s just that the Internet didn’t work so well, and we didn’t know everything. I didn't know everything. Now I even learned more about some past periods. But the problems in the world, of course, need to be solved and solved.

Is it possible to restore relations between Ukrainians and Russians?

— I would like to say right away, which Russians, which Ukrainians? Some Russians and Ukrainians now have normal relations, but some, well, might not have been normal in peacetime. What seems important to me is that Germany was helped by the fact that after World War II there was some kind of work for this national repentance. I also know that LGBT people, too, as a group that constantly lives under genocide... Sweden, for example, trans people who, well, once had mutilation operations there, because in Sweden everything was not as rosy as it is today, all the time - they paid them reparations, although this is a half-century history there, half a century ago.

And I think that everyone, everyone - I mean now not Ukrainians, but Russians, in short - everyone needs to repent. And this seems to be a trigger take, because, well, it immediately prompts people like, “Why should I repent? But I didn’t do anything, I never voted for Putin.” This is where, it seems to me, the problem begins. I’m not a homocop, but this ideology of traditional values, which also relies heavily on patriarchal values, in these patriarchal values ​​it’s also about the fact that no matter how the boys don’t apologize, and don’t repent, and don’t, in short, don’t make mistakes, of course. And in our patriarchal culture, for some reason, apologizing and admitting your mistakes is a terrible mess. We don't have a culture of apology. This is creepy. That is, even when we observe some kind of public scandals, then someone comes out with an apology, you think: “Lord, who are you... Well, in general, why write an apology post like that?” And this is how it manifests itself at micro levels and at macro levels too.

That is, the USSR, which, in general, is also the heir of which Russia is, and for the USSR there were many all sorts of genocides, occupations and all that - there was no such thing as living, repentance. It seems to me that another important story about apologies is that we apologize in everyday life not only when we feel guilty, but also when we understand that we have caused harm. For example, I’m riding on a bus, I swayed there, I stepped on a person’s foot. Did I want to step on my foot? No, of course, I was swayed. In general... it’s not my responsibility, but I say: “Sorry,” because how do I understand that a person is in pain, that I stepped on his foot, and in general it’s just, damn, unpleasant if some woman stepped on her foot, and then she’s like: “No, I actually... the bus rocked, don’t look at me like that.”

And to find out whether harm has been done or not... in many cases, based on the leg, it’s like we have a common experience, we can understand this: it’s unpleasant for a person there and, in general, it’s customary to apologize, but in some cases, to find out whether a person is hurt or not, you can only... well, listen to the person himself. And if some person or some group, if we expand the scale, says: “We are unpleasant from you, from your group. It’s like you’re doing us bad, you’re oppressing us, we’re a small group, and you’re big, you’ve already crushed all our legs here.” Here you have to say: “Damn, damn, something bad happened somehow. Damn, please forgive me, it hurts you now, your legs hurt, but we didn’t mean to. And there’s nothing wrong with apologizing and repenting and finding out where you or the group that you belong to may have caused harm and, I don’t know, become a trigger for other people, for any group, for another group.” This is a question of some kind of self-education. It seems to me that it is very important so that the phrase “Everyone needs to repent” stops sounding terrible. This is not some kind of punishment, it’s the opposite.

Taking responsibility is very cool. Taking responsibility is very cool, because it is a very subjective relationship with life. It’s not life there somewhere separate, something like that in general... the bus is separate, my foot is separate, my foot stepped on - let the foot apologize, the bus swayed - let the bus apologize, or better yet the driver, or better yet his right hand, which turned the steering wheel the wrong way. Oh, it takes a long time to throw hot potatoes, but you can just say: “Damn, well, somehow through me, no matter with my will, without my will, pain fell on your leg. And I apologize for that."

What are you dreaming about?

“I want people not to be afraid of themselves, because they are afraid of others, demonize them and all that, I think, because they are also afraid of themselves. And they are afraid of their dreams, and they are afraid of some of their peculiarities, and they are afraid of some of their dark sides, and they are afraid of some cool sides of themselves, on the contrary, sides that someone told them are not cool. That's it.

Will you return to Russia?

- I don’t even know anymore. Well, in short, I never wanted to emigrate at all. I never wanted to emigrate because I liked working in the community. I’m like this: I’ll sit in Russia, because here I seem to understand the types of shit. So I want to clean up the crap. I'm an expert here. Here. And I had to leave. And that is, this kind of decision was made there in a day. And it was also unclear how much I was leaving for me. But in general... I had so much in my head in those days that this was the last thought that interested me there, as far as I was leaving, what was it like.

Mm, and for a long time I somehow, well, out of inertia, since I never planned to leave, somehow I didn’t imagine myself... well, somehow, that I was living somewhere else, straight out emigrated. That is, when I left, I agreed: well, now we don’t think about this at all - emigration, not emigration, in general there is no free brain for this. I'm leaving, in short, I have a remote job, because my home is a computer. That’s where I’ll put the computer, that’s where my house is. I live on the computer, I do everything there. Here. But now I don’t know, it might be difficult to come back now, for example, if something changes there in 10 years.