They will quarrel, make peace, group together...

The December issue of Lechaim magazine published an interview with director of the SOVA center Alexander Verkhovsky about the events in Biryulyovo. We publish the text of the interview.

Afanasy Mamedov In Russia, the word "pogrom", whether we like it or not, associated with Jewish pogroms. How do you classify events in Biryulyov and what about the Jews, whose memory of such events is meta to genetic level?

Alexander Verkhovsky The investigation qualifies the events in Biryulyov as hooliganism. Mass riots are a more serious legal qualification: this is when certain actions are accompanied by the destruction of property, clashes with the police and so on. To this definition, generally speaking, events in Biryulev are quite consistent. But do they correspond to the concept of "pogrom", according to example, say, the Kishinev pogrom? Obviously not. "Pogrom" - it's all the same from the field of colloquial, it's just that we use this word more widely. Compare Biryulev events with historical Jewish pogroms are impossible. Concerning whether it is time for the Jews to be afraid ... Probably, it is time already, although the passions are not directed at Jews, however, there were cases of attacks on Jewish objects. Drawing swastikas on the wall are an unfortunate phenomenon, no doubt, but this is not a tragedy yet, but, say, throwing explosives, firecrackers and not only is also quite possible. At people who were the driving force behind the events in Biryulyovo, anti-Semitism does not stand on first place, but undoubtedly present.

AM On the issue of visa mode and the conversations around it. Do the riots in Biryulyovo confirm and the events that followed them, that none of the post-Soviet republics wants to treat Russia today as a “big brother” and a chance to transform Has our country already missed the Commonwealth of former British colonies?

AB Relations like the British Commonwealth are not based on the presence or absence of racism, although this is important, and first of all on the presence of some significant ties. For a number of reasons, the former African colonies of Britain are interested in close cooperation with the United Kingdom, not all citizens are interested, but many, mostly middle and upper layers. As a matter of fact, exactly the same arranged relations between Russia and the former republics of the USSR. In those republics where the local elite is oriented toward Russia, and citizens oriented towards Russia for some reason of their own. The same Tajikistan, to example. But Turkmenistan can afford to ignore Russia, that he and does, and it does not depend in any way on what is happening on the Moscow streets, whether the visa regime will be introduced or not (with Turkmenistan it has long been introduced).

AM They wrote and talked a lot about how Orkhan Zeynalov was caught, how delivered him by helicopter so that he looked into the eyes of the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Kolokoltsev, - that this is, they say, our domestic "Hollywood". You are like that too do you think?

AB Power structures need such PR campaigns. Of course it was a little funny because of the obvious overkill, but the action itself, by and large, was justified. Only there was a lot of incongruity: for some reason they showed how During the arrest of Zeynalov, a bunch of fellow soldiers step on different parts of the body. could twist without this cruelty, or at least not show it. Why was to present Zeynalov to the Minister of Internal Affairs in his office with his back hands? It looked overly brutal. There was a feeling that law enforcement agencies want to demonstrate not only their effectiveness, what is good and hard to argue with, but also the cruelty that was not at all necessary - and so everyone knows perfectly well what our police. The anti-immigrant campaign, which lasts throughout the year, it seems to me, greatly changed the idea of ​​Muscovites, what is generally possible and what cannot be done. Previously, I believe, the inhabitants of Biryulyovo would not have been happy about the destruction of the shopping center, I would try to get out of this place as soon as possible.

AM On November 4 in Moscow and other cities of Russia, another "Russian march". How does it differ from the previous ones, did the events in Biryulyovo affect it? And what is now the nationalists without their main leader - Navalny, who now “not here, not there, but who knows where”?

AB The current march and quantitatively, and in its composition practically does not differ from what passed two years ago. There were fewer marchers last year, rather most of all, it was connected with an internal crisis in the nationalist movement. On the latter, probably, was partly influenced by the events in Biryulyovo. But still on these Marches are not marched by ordinary citizens - only members of radical groups. How many There used to be so many of them today. According to our calculations, in the "Russian March" in Moscow this year had a maximum of 6.5 thousand people - this is mainly, and slightly more than half a thousand in two alternative. The number of cities in which this action is also the same. Nationalist groups at the level of their political representation could not play on the events in Biryulyovo. What As for Navalny, he has always been a "foreign body" on the Russian March. Participated many times, but his role there was equal to zero: almost all participants hostile towards him. I think that is why Navalny did not participate in any last year, not this year. Navalny is not a nationalist leader at all. Own Navalny's supporters generally do not share his nationalist views, and those who share and are supporters are so few in number and immobile, that it is impossible even to lead them on the march. Current Navalny's absence from the Russian March will in no way affect his political future. I don’t undertake to guess, but the fact that part of the the current opposition, still does not say anything, everything can happen several times change. They will quarrel, put up, group in different ways.

Sources

• They will quarrel, reconcile, group ... // Lechaim. 2013. December. No. 12(260).