Russian militia Oleg Melnikov: "We crossed the border"

- You know, I talked there with many people (let's honestly call them militias, not volunteers). There is a mixture of various views - nationalists, communists, anti -fascists, monarchists. If you get to the Lugansk Square, which there are no flags there. People are now united by one of the most important goals - building their small independent state. They do not want to join Russia at this stage. In any case, those with whom I talked. They want to be friends. Half of their relatives live in Russia, and they do not see themselves without an open border. Yes, there are rare scums there, as elsewhere, which are engaged in looting there (a recent video of a looter attack in Torez - Theinsider), but for the most part these are honest, former miners, for example, or people who held posts in different structures. They are completely honest and openly expressed on all issues that they do not like. There you can still honestly and openly talk about your preferences in the local meeting, the regional meeting, or what it is called there ... I watched how they discussed some kind of problem, and at the same time did not speak very flattering about their own power, which was there at that time.

- By the way, this is an interesting question. Strelkov, he is Girkin, and the rest of the guys who are now coming on behalf of Slavyansk, Donetsk and Lugansk region - how authoritatives are they at the grassroots level?

- I would say that Strelkov-Girkin has a certain influence. They listen to him, some people admire them. At the same time, there are also people dissatisfied with what he does. Opinions are different. It is very difficult to judge, there is no certain position. Moreover, 15-20% in these regions - for a single Ukraine and are trying in every possible way to convey their opinion. I watched on the barricades in Lugansk and Donetsk, as they came there and said that they were against Novorossiya, i.e. Donetsk and Lugansk region, and for Ukraine to be united.

“And they were not afraid to say that right on the barricades?”

- I watched it. Although they told me that in the first days after Odessa events, some innocent people who tried to talk about a single Ukraine suffered, as a result, it reached their fights. But in general, now the intensity of passions was a little asleep.

- Still, is there a weapon that came from Russia? How is it crossing? The same as you crossed?

- You know, I do not exclude that this is possible. I watched the machine guns there are not new, but the Soviet, 87, 89s, which are very difficult to understand from. That is, I believe that they are local, since they are removed from the service of Russia. But I do not exclude that some people, according to some corridors, could bring some kind of weapon. I do not exclude this, but I have not seen it myself.

- The militias are still waiting for some Russian intervention in the conflict already at the military level?

- In general, people have already been disappointed in Russia. It seemed to them that she had to intervene, but did not intervene. Now they hope exclusively on themselves and for building some small state without Russia.

- Do you think there are people who have sufficient experience and qualifications in order to begin to engage in state construction, and not just a war?

- In any such conflict, in any civil war, at first, exclusively military are visible. But in general, I watched there people who at one time worked as top managers in Chinese large companies, in Singapore, i.e. There are completely different people. The residents of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions themselves are now returning and helping in building the economic part. When I arrived there myself, everyone was simply not to the fact to engage in the delivery of medicines, such as insulin and a patch for cancer patients. That is, people were without vital drugs. But now the situation has changed for the better.

- Has it changed due to what, how can this be achieved? Is it ties with Russia, or is there any help from Ukraine?

- A significant part of humanitarian aid, especially medicines, comes from Russia - these are private donations, i.e. They buy a mass of insulin and send. Help from Odessa. But from those regions of Ukraine where there is no this conflict now, they send blankets, some medications. I watched how humanitarian aid came from the Dnipropetrovsk region, i.e. From completely different areas.

- Did you read what they wrote about you on the portal “Satellite and the pogrom”? The story that is published there is true? (The material is described as Oleg Melnikov helped to “eliminate the firing” points of the Ukrainian army - Theinsider).

- Partially. Not everything is published there, but for the most part corresponds to. The problem is that they did not talk about the situation in Semenovka, when we took out 800 patients from there. This is a height that was needed by the Ukrainian army as one of the bridgeheads in order to capture Slavyansk.

- And how do you even relate to the fact that the militias use hospitals as their bases, including hospitals, so that they do not shoot at them? In Donetsk, they seized the Kalinin hospital, in Semenovka they also occupied the hospital. How correct is it from an ethical point of view?

- As for Semenovka, at that time the task of the patients was to evacuate after they got into it. Apparently Ukrainian mortars beat below the checkpoint, it was 500 meters, but missed, and hit the hospital. After this hospital was evacuated, this hospital was occupied by militias.

- That is, you want to say that while there were sick, no militias were based there?

- The militias were based in the club at 250 meters. There is a club of the DC in which we were. Until this moment, either wounded or sick were in the hospital. There were also wounded militias, for that she and the hospital. But we started evacuation and periodically we had to be there in order to transfer the patients to the basement, since the artillery shutter often passed. And if they beat the factory, then at least 10-20 minutes flew into this hospital, short-flyed or flew.

"Yanukovych lost his legitimacy when he applied strength on the Maidan"

- From your point of view, how much does the idea of ​​independent New Russia justify such a strict confrontation with the authorities and inevitable sacrifices in this regard? Is she worth it?

- No power, it seems to me, is not worth any sacrifice. I at one time supported the Maidan, and still support the idea of ​​the Maidan, which is that we need to overthrow the oligarchic system, similar to the one that Yanukovych had, and Yanukovych lost his legitimacy exactly when I applied the strength on the Maidan. So here. The authorities in Kyiv lost legitimacy, as it seems to me, exactly at the same time, when they used force in the southeast. It was necessary to be able to negotiate.

- Is it possible to negotiate peacefully at the moment when the first killings, abductions, torture went in the southeast? When the deputy of the fisherman was killed, for example? After all, this was not the Ukrainian authorities, right?

- I want to say that crimes are committed from both side, and on both sides there are bad and good. If you say that people in the southeast are all terrorists, then it will be not true, because independence support there is about 75-80%. Although at first they asked for only a few more dense relationships with Russia. They are tied to Russia. Many are connected with business, they carry goods either from Russia or to Russia. Many have relatives of Russia. And if there is European integration and all the boundaries will close, then this would be death like people who live in these regions. Also there are all Russian -speaking, they reacted without enthusiasm to the law on the Russian language.

- But the law on the language was never adopted in the end.

- As a result, an anti -Russian wave was raised, in which people felt a threat to themselves, and therefore, partly, it all began. And people began to arm themselves after the Kharkov events, when in Kharkov as a result of the assault on the city administration, information was information that several unarmed people killed. Only after that people began to take weapons in their hand, capture the SBU, and not the administration.

- And how do you explain to yourself the fact that at the head of this protest is now Girkin and Beard - Russians andemployees of the company Konstantin Malofeev ? They have nothing to do with Donetsk or “New Russia”, as they are perceived there at all?

- As for Girkin, he is treated well in this region, with respect. As for the beard, I heard little about him. The people who were in power at that time remained. But I think, now Gubarev and Bolotov will pick up the power, which they temporarily delegated in connection with this situation. I think this is all before the first elections.

-And you do not have the impression that Russia, nevertheless, through some of its channels has a very serious impact on the leadership of these processes?

- Russia as a whole has a strong influence in the southeast. And to some statements by Putin, absolutely everyone listens there. In general, everything that happens in Russia is listening, identifying themselves with Russia at this stage. But I was about five days in Lugansk, honestly, I did not see some support from Russia in the sense that some people arrived and managed. Although, it seems to me, this would even have corrected the situation partially.

"We crossed the border for us on our ford, another 50 militias"

- And how do you feel about the volunteers who have emerged to the reception of volunteers who claim that they are transporting militias from Russia? How good is this thought?

- I have not heard such about the centers, but as for the place where we went, there was another man about 50 after us. On the "satellite and pogrom" Alexander Chuchkovsky, in my opinion, published his e-mail, and there 50 people crossed this ford. Now, as I know, Russian border guards blocked this place. And I have not heard anything about the training and reception of the so -called volunteers or militias. In general, it seems to me that if a person wants to participate in what is happening there, this is exclusively his right, as the right of another person who at one time rode from Russia and participated in the Maidan.

- And how do you decide for yourself a contradiction between the idea of ​​sovereignty and the right to self -determination? If in Russia the Tatars in Tatarstan would decide to separate from Russia, would you support this thought?

- It seems to me that citizens of one or another region should be decided here first of all. If the Tatars in Russia would have asked for some sovereignty without a department, I would, of course, support. If they asked to separate from the country, and if this had not posed a threat to our state, then why not, if people want to do this. But if everything goes legally.

- That is, do you think that every subject of the Russian Federation has the right to self-determination after some referendum, or in another legitimate way?

- If in Russia it is not possible to make life better for these citizens, or for a particular republic, then, it seems to me, any republic has the right to certain independence. It seems to me that the territorial integrity of Russia is important, but if some republic wants a federation or confederation, why not, if this does not lead to victims, if this does not lead to a deterioration in the lives of these people, if this is their desire, then everything is possible.

- But in Ukraine we see that this leads to victims, but you still support the division?

- It is not that they want independence to the victims, but that the other side does not want this independence. We remember a terrible bloody conflict in Chechnya, I think after it, God forbid something to happen again in Russia.

- Do you really think that Donetsk and Lugansk can become a full -fledged independent state?

- Six months ago, if they told me that there would be a civil war, I would never believe it. It is difficult to draw conclusions so far. They have a lot of errors in the new young democracy, and a lot of advantages. I am now watching what is happening, and it seems to me that they have a certain future. And if you return to the issue of independence in the Russian Federation of some republics, we must not forget that in most of the republics such as Kalmykia or Tatarstan, most ethnically Russians live. When I went to Kazan for the last time, I did not meet people who would imagine themselves without Russia.

“But the matter is not only in the ethnic group.” Now, if the Kaliningrad region wants to in the EU, purely due to economic motivation, should I let it separate?

- Such economic motivation is possible. But the Kaliningrad region was obtained as a result of the conquests of the liberation army of the Soviet Union, which fought with fascist Germany. It seems to me that this is a very small part of what the Soviet Union (and Russia) could receive for the sacrifices that he incurred as a result of the war that Germany unleashed.

- So residents of the Kaliningrad region, you would not give the right to a referendum about the department?

- If they want federalization, then why not?

- And if the departments?

- We need to consider each situation separately.

"Putin is not afraid of Facebook users, but the field commanders who will return from Donetsk"

- You have repeatedly participated in the protest. They are trying to start a criminal case from a rally in Bolotnaya Square, i.e. The current Putin Russia is clearly not your ideal of the state. Where is the logic, do you really want to transfer what is happening in Putin Russia to Ukrainian territory now?

“I will say more than that.” I directly connect the persecution of me in the swamp business with the situation in Slavyansk. I expressed very negatively and more than once, spoke about Putin in Russia. If there is a new swamp area, I will go there again, and I will act harder. You see, now Putin is not afraid of people from Facebook who write some comments. He is much more dangerous to those who return from Donetsk, Lugansk, Slavyansk, who have combat experience. That is, field commanders are much more dangerous to him than a thousand people in the square, peacefully standing. I think that Putin gained his rating as a result of the accession of Crimea to Russia, but then lost it again because of his non-interference in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. I would not only want the Crimea or the Donetsk-Lugan Republic to be under the influence of Vladimir Vladimirovich, moreover, I would not want Russia to be under the influence of this person. I think he is not forever, he will pass soon.

- That is, you want Eastern Ukraine to become closer to Russia in the hope that once Russia will be left without Putin?

- Not once, but in the near future, I hope she will remain. And I hope not to Eastern Ukraine, I hope all Ukraine. These are not two different nations. These are two countries and one people. Anti -Ukrainian sentiments in this regard are very incomprehensible to me. I only think that the troops should not be used against my own population, which is why I went there, like many others went to the Maidan, precisely because the force was used against people who were in the square.

- Но если бы не было этих сепаратистских настроений, если бы убедили людей, что нужна единая Украина. Что страшного, если бы Украина, как и много других славянских стран, славянских народов, оказалась бы в ЕС? Лично тебя что-то пугает в ЕС?

- Меня ничего не пугает в ЕС. Но у меня, как и у многих других, родственники есть на Украине. И меня пугает возможность разрыва культурных, родственных связей. Меня пугает возможность разрыва экономических связей. Я не беру только Украину, еще и часть Ростовской области и Белгорода живет на том, что занимается какой-то коммерцией с Украиной или Россией. Они просто не выживут.

- То есть причина-то получается скорее экономическая, чем культурная? Все дело из-за торговли, которую, кстати, даже никто не перекрывал?

- Культурно-экономическая. Здесь сложно разделять.

- А в чем культурная угроза тогда? Если бы украинцы примкнула к Европе, мы не смогли общаться? В чем угроза-то?

- В установлении границ. Если сейчас до конфликта границу можно было бы проехать только лишь по одному российскому паспорту, то сейчас это будет невозможно, как и в свое время с Ющенко были проблемы. Я общался с людьми с той и другой стороны, все не представляют разрыва культурной части России, родственной части.

- Wait. При Ющенко же можно было по российскому паспорту проехать в Украину?

- Да, можно было. Но при Ющенко была закрыта часть упрощенных переходов, там где один район, Тарасовский, в Ростовской области, можно было свободно переходить, а теперь людям приходится ехать 200-300 километров до большого переходного пункта с таможенным постом и прочее.

- Но получается-то, что добились обратного результата. Теперь из-за вооруженного конфликта могут и правда закрыть границу (о чем сначала и речи не шло). Получается наоборот, мы оттолкнули Украину от себя?

- Нет, я бы не согласился с этим, потому что это все временно, и как мне кажется, все решится. Нужно не забывать, что есть интересы тех людей, которые живут в восточных областях. Мы тут можем рассуждать, куда Украине идти куда регионам идти. Но в первую очередь нужно решить Юго-Востоку, куда они хотят. Мне кажется, они уже сделали свой выбор, в результате которого было очень много жертв, и теперь они достойны хотя бы того, чтобы с ними стали разговаривать в Киеве.