"The state must own the regional operator." Novosibirsk deputy on garbage reform and tariffs

What is the tariff for waste export? How can you justify its possible increase by almost 32% in the Novosibirsk region? What is the main problem of the financial model of the garbage concession? Why do residents of the regional center subsidize the non -existent removal of waste from the villages? The position of the deputy of the City Council of Novosibirsk Alexander Burmistrov.

We give the decoding of the interview of Alexander Burmistrov to the journalists Taiga.info Alexei Mazuru and Evgeny Mezdrikov in the CH program on the NTNT24 television channel.

On November 13, the opinion of the regional waste management operator will be published at the Taiga.info. The expert of the program will be the general director of Ecology-Novosibirsk LLC Larisa Anisimova.

Mazur: There are more questions now than answers. What is the "defrosting" of the concession that the governor spoke of in October? What will happen to the landfill? This reminds me of the situation with the "nomadic" ice palace of sports that was supposed to be in one part of the city, then in the other, then in the third. And now we have a "nomadic" dump of garbage. Either she is in the Razdolny, then in the medicinal, now some objects appear in draw. And it is not clear what will happen to it.

Burmistrov: The main thing, probably, in this whole story is not a place for landing, but a financial model. What is the main problem of concession? The fact that the organization that places this landfill receives for decades a guarantee of the necessary gross revenue. Guarantees that, if there is no revenue, if the investments do not pay off, or fall into the tariff, or will be compensated at the expense of the budget. This is decades ahead. These are risks of tens of billions of rubles that are created out of the blue.

Organizations that are ready to enter the sorting market and not require any guarantees from the region are many of them. But in our region, do not understand why, concluded a concession agreement, according to which the necessary gross revenue will be guaranteed. This is the main problem.

Mazur: Maybe it’s easier for us to terminate [concession], because there are “total” 300 million rubles must be given and said goodbye. But we look like a person from a joke, who stuffed a ten -ruble to the sewer hatch, because we dropped a patch there. What to do with a garbage concession? And, most importantly, I do not understand what the authorities are going to do. They talk about a certain “defrosting”, about the transfer of a garbage training ground, but no action is visible.

Burmistrov: It is difficult to talk about some kind of “defrosting”, because it is not clear what exactly this means. The statement is so compressed, unclear what is inside.

Mazur: You madean analysis of a possible increase in the tariff for garbage collection by almost 32%. It is still not clear why this increase is planned so sharp. Here we began garbage reform, and so it seems to be immediately raised the tariff. After that, there is a lot of criticism: that something is not exported there, something is not exported here, debts to carriers, but it is said that [tariff] must still be increased. What's happening?

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Burmistrov: From my point of view, the appetites of the organization, which is engaged in all this, are inadequate. Nobody limits them from the authorities. Therefore, they want more and more. This is very simple.

First. The tariff that is now contains the cost of garbage collection from more than 1.5 thousand settlements. According to sanitary standards, in the summer this must be done daily, in winter - more often. These are colossal funds that are taken into account in the tariff. But in fact, if we listen to the head of the regional operator, garbage is taken out of a smaller part of settlements. Yes, the majority lives there, but taking into account the transport costs that you went to the tariff, you take one tank or two per 200 km, you burn diesel fuel in about one volume. Therefore, this tariff, which is officially approved, it is predatory and inadequate, because it contains expenses that are actually not incurred. Transport costs, according to the re -operator, account for more than 70% in the total tariff. What we now have is inadequate. This is multiple, for example, higher than in the Republic of Khakassia, in Abakan. There, many times cheaper, this service costs.

Next. About this growth. This information is open, it is posted on the website of the Department of Tariffs of the Novosibirsk Region. Every interested resident can go to the site and see the tariff that is valid now. This is 446 rubles per 1 cubic meter. And to see the tariff that is proposed for approval next year is 558 rubles. And here is the main question that I asked myself (the same as you): what is the possible nature of this increase?

In order to analyze this nature, you need to understand the structure of the tariff. 72.82% is transportation costs. So, at the time of filing an application with a tariff increase of 31%, competitive procedures for the election of garbage carrier companies were not carried out. And this means that the maximum that the re -operator could do is to the costs that are already now, add literally a few percent to the appendage. Such indexation is an official standard that is approved at the federal level.

Next - VAT. He was 20%, and remained. The third position is landfills. It can be seen that there is no cardinal growth of tariffs for a burial at landfills. Also literally a few percent. Perhaps, with an increase in volume, landfills and costs of landfills. But where is 30%from? Only the fourth component remains - the own costs of the regional operator. Previously, it was 2.54%, now it is a 30%increase is possible provided that own expenses are growing many times. To say for sure, you need to see the application that the re -operator submitted to the tariff department.

What can be “inside” of its own costs? There may be containers. There may be an increase in costs for employee labor. There may be increased rental costs or something else. You just need to publish these data.

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We must understand another thing. This failure of garbage from a number of settlements cannot be taken into account in terms of lowering the tariff for the next year. Because the tariff for 2020 should be recorded in December, and the report for 2019 will submit next year. That's the story. For the second year in a row this problem has been going on.

Mazur: Do people pay for garbage removal in these settlements?

Burmistrov: They do not pay, but we pay for it. Look, we pay 88 rubles - I and you, like the average inhabitants. Directly for the export from garbage tanks next to our house to the landfill, about 60 rubles are paid. The remaining 28 is a fee for that in general in the region everything is safe from an environmental point of view. To take out of the leaflet, a refinement, some raspberry-that is, from it is not clear how remote points. We pay for this, but this does not happen.

Mazur: That is, the inhabitants of Novosibirsk subsidize the removal of garbage from rural territories?

Burmistrov : Yes, the very trouble is not in that. We submit non -existent garbage collection from rural territories. This is madness. And it will continue in 2020. Such is the federal technique. Again, the tariff department, as far as I see their actions, where they can be cut within the framework of the powers that the legislation determined them, they try to cut. But they are limited by those norms that are.

And here the question, in my opinion, turns into a political plane. Guys, well, if you don’t take it out of there, how do you work at all?

Mezdrikov: Is there anyone other than the tariff department, who can affect this situation? The Legislative Assembly, which should protect the interests of residents, including the region? The City Council, which should also be interesting, since we subside the non -existent export?

Burmistrov: Unfortunately, deputies cannot influence administratively. We can talk about it, collect round tables and so on. As an adviser to the head of Khakassia, I can say that there, city or regional deputies can act as a lever of pressure - they cannot make an administrative decision either. They are not in this chain. What depends on me is publishing all this madness.

Mazur: I want to say that madness does not end there. We are all talking about garbage reform and garbage concession. So, the concession to us has not yet “came” in the form of a tariff. After the factories are built, they will be added to the tariff, and there, I think, not 30%, but all 100 or 200 will be added.

Burmistrov: Either this will do the budget so that the population does not go out in the square. Perhaps the costs of these plants will simply get to the budget.

In this whole story, one more point is critical. Looking at the showdown between the regional operator and carriers, we understand that at any time problems with the export are possible. In fact, those organizations that are responsible for the life support of Novosibirsk threaten residents of the city. They claim that they are underpayment, others say that you have something wrong with your reporting. And as a result, there is a direct risk of non -rejection.

There is only one way out, in my opinion. The regional operator must be a state enterprise. Because this is an administrative function. And she was taken and given to incomprehensible people.

Mazur: In the garbage topic, it becomes more interesting. We expect to receive clarifications from the regional operator why such a tariff increase is supposed. And, of course, we will tell you.

Earlier, guests of the CH program were the first vice speaker of the Legislative Assembly Andrei Panferov , deputies of the Novosibirsk City Council Igor Salov and Vyacheslav Ilyukhin , a communications expert Dmitry Petrov .