"Heidegger was afraid of flights to the moon"

Conversation of journalist Andrei Babitsky and writer Oliver Morton

In early December, the Polytechnic Museum spent a book week, to which a British journalist and writer Oliver Morton was invited as a special guest. In 2020, the Russian translation of his book “ Moon. The story of the future ”was just published in the series“ The Books of Politha ”, so Morton acted as an expert on the Moon - this topic was devoted to the questions that journalist Andrei Babitsky asked him. As part of a joint project, Gorky publishes their conversation with some abbreviations with the Enlightener Prize.

- You are optimistic in everything related to visiting and mastering the moon. In your opinion, what events will take place in this area in the near future?

- Yes, I'm an optimist. But it does not seem to me that the speedy return to the moon is a good option. The point is not to return there as soon as possible, but to do it right and on time. Today there are statements that in 2024 the Americans will again land on the moon. Nobody believes them, but maybe they believe in it themselves. So, until 2030, this will most likely happen. Because they believe that they just need it. China is now developing an ambitious program related to obtaining lunar soil samples using lunar drives. Over time, they will create a program to send a person to the moon. And then they will feel that they must literally do this. It so happened that America sent a man to the moon, and many countries have a kind of complex about this. But we must understand that our today's desire for the moon is not a competition between the United States and the Soviet Union of a model of the seventies of the twentieth century. This is already a competition with the ghosts of the past, or something. I believe that as a result of this competition, a person in the near future will again be on the moon. In addition, one must understand the specifics of that American experience. After all, this was not just the first person on the moon, it was a man on the moon. And this is a very important point for America of the twentieth century. Therefore, now part of the international agenda is a woman on the moon. American politicians very clearly and clearly say that the next person on the moon should be a woman. This is of certain importance, symbolism, if you want.

- You mentioned an ambitious Chinese mission. It does not seem strange to you that those who are guided by either nationalist considerations or competition are taken to fulfill such a high task of mankind-some motives that are more likely to divide humanity. In your book, you notice that private entrepreneurs who look into space are also not the best people on Earth. About Ilona Mask you write that he is a self -confident if. What is the reason for this paradox?

- Elon Musk behaves like a spoiled child. He believes that since he is a special person, the laws and rules that apply in our case are not applicable to him. Yes, the goals that he set is important. But I agree that the people who go to space should be the guides of a certain idea, should behave in a special way. They should have a clear understanding of what is good and what is bad. And I do not think that the Space X or the Communist Party of China is the very people who should do this. For example, there are certain rules, laws in the UN, there is responsibility to other countries. It seems to me very important that the standards are everywhere. And so that people who bring a person into space adhere to these very standards. This is, for example, Antarctica. On Antarctica there are agreements supported by many countries, but Antarctica is a draw of territory. It is impossible to trade there, the activity is limited there - they mainly conduct a scientific one. A similar situation should work out with the moon. This is still not a wild West.

- In your book you are considering the arguments of people who opposed flights to the moon - starting with Hannah Arendt and Martin Heidegger. According to my observations, opponents of the development of the moon often say: “Let's better solve earthly problems, let's study the bottom of the ocean, let's fight poverty.” What arguments could you offer to convince them that the development of the moon is an important task for us?

- I would not say that you need to get to the moon at all costs. However, I want to say that the world needs to be understood and perceived entirely: and the planet of the Earth cannot be understood and comprehended entirely while we stand on it. We need to see it from a distance, from another angle. Heidegger, for example, was afraid of flights to the moon. But people, according to my sensations, begin to believe technologies, and before they did not believe them at all. But there is still an idea that the moon is just some kind of distraction element on which we only spend resources. But today we know that the Earth and the Moon were created in the collision of two protoplanets. In fact, the moon is part of the earth that separated from it many millions of years ago. And if we look at fossils on Earth, in theory they will have to coincide with the fossils that we must find on the moon. Naturally, on the moon, such stones should lie deeper, not on the surface. Some scientists even say that the moon is something like a closet or a closet of land. She puts various things there and then forgets what is there. And then he opens the door and looks: “Oh, not a fig to myself, I still put it here. How cool! "

We are now talking about data - photographs, records, samples of stones - which we can analyze. And as far as I know, now it can be done with the help of robots, remotely. But in general, I must say that if we return the moon to the Earth Ecosystem, this will be like the return of the prodigal son. It is very valuable for humanity - not to forget that the moon is also part of our world. And her symbolic return is the dream that many researchers and scientists share. Of course, this is such an idealistic representation, but we are talking about expanding the boundaries of our world, and this is very important.

- One of the non -obvious statements contained in your book is that anthropocoro began on July 20, 1969. Could you clarify this thought?

- David Greenspun expressed this idea first. People understand that human activity has changed the planet. And now people are the strongest type of living creatures. And it would be logical to ask - and when exactly, at what moment this era began? This is an important question - both from a purely technical and ideological point of view. There are several options for response to it. I believe that the reference point is July 20, 1969. This can be perceived as a joke, but you can take seriously. The trace of the Nile Armstrong on the moon will last millions and billions of years. Unless, of course, space tourists do not come there and everyone does not trample. This is a certain boundary of human consciousness, which has become interplanetary. We are not talking about the source of energy, not about conquests, we say that human consciousness has expanded. This refers us, for example, to the ideas of Vernadsky, to his idea of ​​the biosphere and noosphere. I like that at the beginning of geological history the Earth and the Moon were a single cosmic body. It seems to me that this is very interesting - the fact that they were divided. And now there is something poetic in this association-that we again return to the moon, which was part of the earth, albeit for a very small period of time. And it seems to me that this is a very interesting thought that should be written in books.

-By the way, will the Earth and the Moon ever unite again?

- No, on the contrary. The moon moves away from the ground a few centimeters per year. We know that the astronauts of the Apollo project put laser reflectors to measure the distance from the moon to the ground. The corner moment of this system should be constant, and it gradually changes. Therefore, we can say that the moon does not rotate as fast as the earth rotates. And she gradually moves away from us. As far as we now know, the only companion that will fall on the planet is Mars's companion. But this will happen very, very soon.

- The moon has quite noticeably influenced and affects the earthly life and circumstances of life on it. Tell us more about this.

- Yes, indeed, the influence of the moon on the earth and on man is very important. There are two points here. Firstly, (this is obvious, but it is worth talking) without the moon at night it would be dark. And earlier, at night, a person used the reflected light of the moon in order to move in order to conduct his economic activity. Now the technologies have stepped forward, there are infrared devices of night vision, there are devices that see in various ranges, but now the military choose the dark time to attack opponents. This is about the human activity directly. And there are also oceans, there are tides and ebbs, and we can talk about a huge number of living organisms that depend on tides and castings. Moreover, at the very beginning of the history of the Earth, the influence of the moon was even more important, because the moon was closer, which means that the ebbs and flows were stronger and more often, a tidal wave reached almost twenty meters. Such tides very significantly influenced a separate small ecosfer of some region and on living organisms that exist in a certain territory. In addition, they helped the organisms migrate from one place to another. Of course, this could happen without the moon, but with the moon it happened much faster. Therefore, the ebbs and tides are extremely important. And it is also interesting that in various cultures (I don’t know how in Russia, but in England, for example), somnambulism is associated with the moon. And scientists in 1920 tried to find a connection between mental illness and lunar cycles.

- In German, there is such a word “die Laune” - “mood”, which literally comes from the word “moon”.

- Yes, really. Well, it is also important to add that in almost every culture the moon is used as the basis for the calendar. Someone has just a pure lunar calendar (a Jewish or Chinese calendar), there may be a combination of a sunny and lunar calendar. Or, if we are talking about the sunny calendar, it can be combined with the residual lunar calendar.

-Maybe in America this also takes place, but in Russia it is absolutely like that: there are quite a lot of people who believe that Stephen Spielberg or someone else directed the landing to the moon. In this regard, the question: what are the strangest fakes and fiction about the moon you met in your life? What prejudices do you have to fight?

-There are many different conspiracy theories in the world, but most of them are built around the statement "someone needs it." Here someone there hides the truth from you, because they need it. And the conspiracy related to the moon is different. There are no reptiloids or Masons who would make money from the fact that someone travels to the moon. Moreover, photographs of various lunar drives and orbital modules were taken and published in the USA, and they can see where and how landing was performed. In addition, you can look at the photograph of Alan Shepard - he played Golf on the moon. It can be such a golf club and you need to scratch your back to a person who does not believe in technology, that the person was on the moon. It really amazes me. I often communicate with different older people, one way or another related to the Apollo project. Still, this is a huge project. Four hundred thousand Americans worked on this project: technical specialists, administrative employees ... This is not a small sample, this is the largest project. And so I communicate with these people ... They are here, they live in our country, they have children, grandchildren. And other people say that this was not, that all this is swelling and “no, no, no, you were not on the moon!” How so?!

- Are there any common prejudices that are not directly related to landing on the moon?

- Well, there are a huge number of different delusions. For example, everyone is familiar with the image of wolves who howl on the moon. On this topic there was a study that showed that wolves or dogs would howl at night, regardless of whether the moon will be in the sky or not. Just people see them when there is a moon and moonlight in the sky. And so they will still howl. In addition, in different cultures, the connection between pregnancy and the moon is affirmed. There are beliefs according to which a pregnant woman needs to look only at the reflected light so that she has a healthy child. Or, on the contrary, look at the irrepressible light if she wants to get rid of the child. Yes, there are a huge number of different prejudices and stories from countries around the world. For example, from the south-west of the United States. Some peoples associate the moon with a rabbit, while others associate, for example, with a bed. And Koyot in this mythology was an evil deity, he used the moon for his dark purposes, and then in the end a rabbit appeared and saved the moon from the coyot. It is characteristic that this legend was invented so that it explains the movement of the moon, cycles, full moon, new moon, etc.

- You cited Antarctica as an example of a cooperation format, which can be applicable on the moon. But people in Antarctica are mainly scientists or scientific and technical personnel. If you imagine that a similar situation will develop on the moon, what discoveries and answers to what questions do you expect from people who are lucky enough to work on the moon?

-Firstly , I am waiting for a lot from the study of water. We will be able to find out about the history of the solar system, this is an extremely important aspect. The search for meteorites that came to the moon from Venus is no less important. Because it is very difficult to get to Venus, there is a very dense atmosphere. Only the Soviet Union managed to send several probes to Venus, but they can hardly be considered their missions completely successful. Therefore, it is very difficult to get soil samples from there. And finding meteorites from Venus on the moon will be very useful. And yet, we can use the moon in order to look from it at the stars. There is the reverse side of the moon, you can put a radio telescope there and look from that side. Because the quietest place is the reverse side of the moon, there are no interference from the earth and from the front of the moon.

“Do you believe that colonies will ever appear on the moon?” And that they will consist of people who do not just fly, but live for some time with some goals.

-It seems to me that the situation with the moon will still be more like the situation with Antarctica, in which no one lives constantly: people come for a while, fulfill their scientific task and leave back. We do not know about the long -term effects and effects that low gravity has on a person. In particular, we do not know how it affects pregnancy. Will the child grow well in these conditions or not? This can only be recognized experimentally. Therefore, the colony on the moon, most likely, will not appear. Don't know. This is more likely to happen on Mars. But it seems to me interesting experience itself, the very opportunity to walk along the moon, look from the moon to Earth, feel the difference in gravity. It is necessary to appreciate the opportunity to look at your planet from another point. And in this regard, I, perhaps, can not say for sure that the colonies on the moon will not be. Maybe there will be some religious beliefs, guided by which people will go to the moon. Maybe they will assume that it is on the moon that will be freedom, and on Earth there will not be any freedom. I do not know whether it will happen or not, but in theory it is possible. At the same time, life on the moon is very different from the life to which we are used to Earth over the past few thousand years. These are very difficult living conditions. And the moon does not forgive mistakes.